| By MITA on Tuesday, July 06, 1999 - 10:21 pm: |
Hi my name is Mita and i have a real problem. look i am dating this guy for about 9 months now and things are going great but for one thing, he is from a different caste than i am. i am guju or in other words lleva patidar surti and he is about the same but my parents say no cause of his last name. mine is patel and his is mistry. what do i do. all of my friends tell me to just make my parents understand but they do not know my dad. ha is a real a__hole, and does not understand anything. he is soooo hard to talk to, and on top of everthing else i think that my boyfriend might have told his parents about me but i think they told him no,or something. i haven't talked to my b/f in about 1 month and we have decided not to talk to each other until my b-day, which is in Sept. Cause everybody is so suspicious of us. i really do not get along with my parents at all. i fight with them all of the time. i need someone's help as soon as possible. what should i do, just run away, or stay with my parents and marry someone that i will never love, and live just like a dead person. please help me, i am sooo confused.
| By Pooja on Wednesday, July 07, 1999 - 01:54 am: |
Mita, it all depends on your priorties or obligations. It depends how do you feel about your parents, to me it seems you have zero respect for your parents, considering you just called your own father an a__hole? I think it would be better if you just leave them, atleast they won't be that much hurt, if they ever come across this post, hearing their daughter thinks of them as bunch of asses. Otherwise, you should sit back, think with calm mind, what do you want out of your life? Considering that guy has told you, that he will not talk to you till your bday, he is giving himself some time to think about it all this. So should you. Do you think he will go against his parents will? Does he have the same kind of relationship with his parent as you do (calling your own dad "a__hole" ?) I don't know how old you are, but I would suggest you to act a bit maturely and think calmly, don't get too emotional in such situations, you will loose your good thinking abilities.
| By MITA on Wednesday, July 07, 1999 - 11:00 pm: |
DEAR POOJA,
I AM SORRY IF I OFFENED U, WITH THE REMARK ABOUT MY DAD, BUT IT IS TRUE I REALLY DO NOT GET ALONG WITH MY PARENTS AT ALL. LIKE, JUST YESTERDAY WE GOT INTO A FIGHT. MY DAD TRIES TO RULE EVEYONE'S LIFE, AND HE DOES NOT LIKE ME CAUSE I SPEAK MY MIND, AND I KNOW WHAT I WANT IN LIFE. MY FATHER ALWAYS TELLS EVERBODY HOW BAD I AM BUT IN REALITY I AM REALLY JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT. AND I AM 20 YEARS OLD AND IN COLLEGE. I AM NOT GOING TO BREAK UP WITH MY B/F ANY TIME SOON JUST FOR MY DAD. I HAVE ABOUT TWO MORE YEARS TO FINISH SCHOOL AND I HOPE THEN THAT I WILL MAKE MY DECISION BUT I AM JUST SO STRESSED OUT SOMETIMES THAT I SOMETIMES WISH THAT I COULD JUST DROP OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH FOREVER. SORRY, BUT I HAVE TO GO BACK TO MY JAIL (HOME) I WILL TELL U MORE TOMORROW OF WHY I CALL IT MY JAIL.
| By Princess on Thursday, July 08, 1999 - 04:00 am: |
Mita,
You are young. Parents can be very frustrating sometimes and I understand that however at 20 you don't have the knowledge nor the experience that they posses from life. Sure they may be unreasonable and of a different generation but you need to be practical.
Don't walk out on a college education or your family for anyone. You aren't yet old enough to make that decision. At 27 I'd never leave my family for anyone or anything. Life is full of compromises and that is your first lesson in life. If you truly love eachother then let time decide where your paths lead.
Both you and your boyfriend need to play things cool and wait it out till you guys get out of school and are holding jobs because at your age there is nothing more luxorious then having your college education paid for and having no rent or bills to pay. Take advantage of it and be practical. Put up with your parents not because of the material things but because you are still young and living at home and they are your parents.
If you lose respect for them at this age you never will respect them in the future. And if they realize that you don't respect them now they never will respect you back in the future.
| By love on Thursday, July 08, 1999 - 10:46 pm: |
Hello to everybody
i am no indian person but iŽll get married with one , i love him so much and he love me too
i dont live there
I wanna know all about their customes, habits , he is christian and what kind of wedding they do it, and i have to do some important there
thanks
| By Ginger on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 06:29 pm: |
Dear Mita,
I would like to tell you that i was in the same boat as you a couple of years ago. Thankfully my parents came round, and so did his, but i must admit after much drama. And also after both of us finished our degrees. Let me tell you, did i put up a fight...anyways, we are getting engaged soon and i just wanted to say after all these years, it was totally worth the effort, the sleepless nights etc. After dealing with the inevitable issues that surround a daughter brought up in Australia, and parents from the old world, we are one big happy family. Only fight for it if it is worth it, and as far as I'm concerned, if it is love, it is always worth it...
Keep us posted yeah?
| By avatar on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 12:57 am: |
Dear Ginger,
I'm sorry but could you further elaborate on your situation. forgive me for being curious but could you explain why it was so difficult and how everything got resolved? Thanks.
| By Ginger on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 08:13 am: |
dear avatar,
no, don't apologise, I don't mind elaborating. Our story is a long one, and at the risk of boring you, i will give you the very modified version. Well first of all we are from different states of Australia and met on holiday and subsequently were doing the long distance thing. The parents' first gripe was the fact that they didn't think that we knew eachother well enough, fair enough i say. But then there was the major hurdle, and that is that we are different castes and religion, well that is the one that took ages to get over, and the one that i understand, but do not accept.
My parents are ok as far as parents go, and usually pretty open minded, but this time all their open mindedness went out the window, as the future of their first daughter lay before us all. It sounds weird telling the story 3 years later, because it was much worse at the time then what i remember now...Anyways, we had to both try really hard, just basically with a lot of talking and not giving up, i just did not give in to my parents, probably for the first time in my life.
Finally everyone met eachother and well the rest is hisory. Well it's not really yet, as i said we are getting engaged soon, so it is all just beginning i suppose. We have both identified that there will be maybe more compromise than the average couple in our relationship, although we have both been brought up here, we both have a strong sense of self, and of our roots. Over the years we have come to acknowledge and accept eachothers differences, including family wise.
Although i am a hopeless romantic, i do have my head screwed on straight, and i know that we have to both adjust, but as long as we are BOTH aware of that, then we have made a conscious decision to make it work despite all the problems our parents were sure that we would not be able to handle. Basically we both take each day as it comes, why start stressing about something that may or may not happen tomorrow yeah? Our parents are really great now, they did a complete turn around, my mum is absolutely crazy about him now. It was just a matter of them seeing the person and then putting everything else into perspective i think. Yeah so that is basically my story, actually you could easily have mistaken my story for the same story as the half a million indian movies you've probably seen...ha ha I'd hate to think that my life is as corny as an Indian movie, but at times i do have to wonder. Does that help Avatar, i hope so becos i do have a tendency to go on...catch-ya.
| By MITA on Wednesday, July 21, 1999 - 09:54 pm: |
To:Ginger on Sunday, July 11, 1999 - 08:43 pm:
Dear Ginger,
How are you? I guess after reading the message you left for
me. I really want to thank u, you have helped me alot with
trying to be patient. well, i have just recently picked my
major, it is physical Therapy. and as u can see it is going
to take me a while to finish it. about 2 years. and
hopefully by then my parents will finally agree. and i also
want to thank you for not yelling at me for what i called my
dad,I HAVE GOTTEN ALOT OF GRIEF FOR THAT STATEMENT IN THE
PAST, it is probably cause u went through it.
| By avatar on Thursday, July 22, 1999 - 05:56 pm: |
Ginger,
Thanks for elaborating. I hope things work out for all of you eventually
| By preeta on Wednesday, August 04, 1999 - 08:09 pm: |
Hi,
I'm in a very stressed out situation - I came to US prior to my engagement and had to go back to India to get married. But I fell in love with somebody in US - both of us like each other lots -But i don't have any inclination towards the guy whom i got married - All I can think of is DIVORCE. What should I DO?
| By Princess on Thursday, August 05, 1999 - 04:38 am: |
Preeta,
You should have thought of the consequences beforehand. You were not only unfair to one person but three including yourself and the two men in your life. Why did you get married if you didn't want to?
On a more realistic thought you need to access the situation with a level head. Aren't you being unfair towards your current husband? Is he a good man? What will you be losing if you leave him and run away with your lover? What will the consequences be on you and your family? Is your lover even anywhere close by to go back to? Does he even want you back? Do you think this is ethical?
| By AAA on Saturday, August 07, 1999 - 06:20 pm: |
Hi Preeta,
Its unfortunate that you are in this situation. However if you are in US and is in love with someone here and really likes him then I think divorce is the solution. As Princess rightly said you should have thought of consequences beforehand but if your marriage is not going to last in the long run then I dont see any problem in divorce. However you are the best judge.
| By Regis on Sunday, August 15, 1999 - 09:02 pm: |
Hi all!
I'm French, so, sorry if my english writing is not so good...
About arranged marriage, I'm very concerned today because 7 months ago I met an Indian girl... today I love an Indian girl and she loves me! But she told me about the tradition of arranged marriages. She wants to please to her parents, and to let them choose her future husband.
I can't judge a tradition, I can't tell what I think because I'm too ignorant about.
I let her the choice of her life. If she wants I leave, I leave, even if it's very hard, if she wants I stay, I stay. Just because I love her, I don't want to fight, I don't want to demand anything about her own life, I just want to give her all I can, all my love.
I try to understand her, so I try to understand this tradition.
However, I can't imagine that she would go with another man when she loves me! It would be very difficult to accept, and very painful!
I'd just like to read your opinions and perhaps to find some helps!
Have happiness!
| By Anonymous on Friday, August 27, 1999 - 06:51 am: |
Regis, be very careful and think about ending it now. If anyone believe that 'forced' arrange marriages do not exist in India, they are fooling themselves.
Unfortunately, it's not always easy to spot the 'forcing' coming as it appears through manipulation.
If you are a child with parents who expect you to go through an arranged marriage, please do not date anyone until you decide that you have the backbone to stand up for the person you might fall in love with. While you might be a little lonely, you will save everyone alot of pain in the end.
If you are a parent who will disown your child in they marry outside of your community, don't let them go West to school or whatever. Your children won't really believe you will disown them for falling in love with someone else.
I had always believed that love conquered all. However, my parents love for me is unconditional. But then, love is not the primary objective in an arranged marriage, especially one that is forced.
| By Brown Sugar on Friday, August 27, 1999 - 08:42 am: |
Hi everyone,
I just came back from a wedding last weekend, where the bride was Hindu (Gujarati) and the groom was a white, Christian male. I was talking to the bride afterwards, and this is what she said," It IS very difficult, when you have to choose between what your parents say regarding marrying someone who is the same religion and caste as you, and the man you love. But as I have learned, even if your parents threaten that they will not like the weddng or that you won't be their daughter anymore, you know that that's not true. They will be upset and disappointed for a while..but you are still they're daughter, and whatever makes you happy, will eventually make them happy. It might take a while, but it will happen. And that is what happend. So girls...if you love a man who is not the same religion as u, don't despair..your parents love you - they're not going to give up their daughter just because she didnt' listen to them regarding who to marry. :)
| By Opinion on Friday, August 27, 1999 - 05:48 pm: |
I agree with Brown Sugar.
Too many times, parents use manipulations, threats and coersion to change their children's mind about marrying a non-Indian. However, in the end, if they are educated, have a little bit of open-mind and most of all LOVE their child, they will come around.
| By Anonymous on Sunday, August 29, 1999 - 04:25 pm: |
Maybe you can come offer your experiences and words...
Mr Sampadhaki
Pls do NOT solicit or post advertisements on this site.
-ed.
| By Regis on Sunday, August 29, 1999 - 08:34 pm: |
Thanks very much for your answers. I feel less alone...
Brow Sugar, you give me hope!!!
Anonymous, I think a lot about what I live with her. Sincerely, it's difficult to plan to end it when I know there's love, and when I'm sure we could build together a nice life... However, I think whatever choice I take, I risk a lot of pain, she risks a lot of pain. I just hope to take the good choice !
| By Editor on Friday, October 01, 1999 - 02:05 am: |
Note for Writers? We want your Bio?
If you are regular contributor to the forums, please POST a very brief note on you about 10 to 15 lines and create a separate page introducing regular writers. A picture in any format can also be Uploaded automatically, optionally.
Introduction : Profiles of Writers, Moderators & Frequent Contributors
Introduction : Help on IndiaTalking - Most Comprehensive Discussions On India - Suggestions & review of discussions
| By FunLover on Saturday, October 02, 1999 - 12:23 am: |
Editor,
Why do you need my bio and picture for? My mother is after me to send her the same. She wants to look for a girl for me. Will you do the same? If that is the plan then I'll send you the requirements for her (vital statistics, complexion of skin, length of hair, breadth of face, pout of lips etc.) too. So, what do you say?
Thanks and expecting a positive reply from you,
FunLover
| By Editor on Saturday, October 02, 1999 - 07:00 pm: |
Dear FunLover
We do not need as such as it is surely an option.
Many readers wanted us to add a faeture to review the discussions, to know a bit more the various participants and writers so we started the new feature.
If anyone is interested to post a profile in brief it can be anonymous but with the alias name used.
Hope that helps. Have a good weekend...
| By Bhima Patel on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 07:40 am: |
For all you guys that criticize the parents and family for not letting them marry non-Hindus.
It is a self defense mechanism to protect the groups numbers. If nobody preserved this defense then Hindusthan.net which is based outside Hidnusthan may not exist.
So I say do whatever you must but make sure us Hindus don't loose out in the numbers game.
Yes, the numbers game. Where a group must maintain its population and try to increase, while maintaining the quality (wealth, education, social reputation, hygiene and overall view of the group by others) and increasing the quality as well of its members.
Do what it takes to win the numbers game!
So all of you that say let us fail in the numbers game for love and lust.
**C* YOU!
| By Muscle Man on Monday, October 18, 1999 - 08:40 am: |
Bhima Patel,
Your argument is so one-sided and many Hindu living in England marry white girls or as you would say NON-HINDUS.
I cannot see any much wealth in India as it is all kept by the upper classes through greed and corruption. The quality of your members is bad.
The caste system in India degrades people of lower classes and the upper crust does not give a dam! That is why you get Oxfam like charities to ask for 1 pound a month to sponsor a Indian who hasn't had the chance to live a fulfilling life. If your wealth,education and social reputation was one of quality then those adverts should never be.
| By Leena on Friday, November 05, 1999 - 09:58 pm: |
Brown Sugar's story gives me hope.
I'm in the same boat (I've posted to one of these discussion strings before about my story). I just have to keep telling myself that ultimately, it is my *happiness* that my parents want...it's just that they also believe that marring along the traditional, arranged-marriage lines will make me happy, simply because it's a formula for success for them and others!
Leena
| By elephant on Tuesday, November 09, 1999 - 03:46 pm: |
dear friends i am a MA student in London, studying youth & community-my dissertation is on British Arranged marriages, more specifically, what young peple think of them, how it affects their lives and what you percieve "arranged marriage means to you" I would be intrested in comparing the differences with Muslim, Hindu and Sikh marriages...can you young people help?
| By Angella on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 04:39 am: |
Dear friends: I am all set to marry the man of my dreams who is a Kashmiri. I happen to be a Keralite, so you can imagine what a great north-south divide there exists!! I totally agree with Brown Sugar, that eventually parents (from both sides) do come around - it is only a matter of time and patience. Any comments?
| By Hopeless on Sunday, November 14, 1999 - 09:17 pm: |
Hey. I have read some of these entries and found that I am in the same boat as a lot of people out there. I have kind of been in and out of a relationship with this white guy for about two years now. What I mean by in and out is that we go through this series of breakups becuase I freak out about the future and my parents and will try to be apart from him even though I really still care about him so much. Right now, we are not together but going to the same school is hard because we still see each other a lot and spend time together. Sometimes, I try to think logically and find that there are differences between the two of us that go beyond race. Just things that I don't know if I want to deal with for the rest of my life. I just don't know if I try to find other things wrong with him becuase deep down inside I am scared that the only reason I am not with him is because of his race and the idea of hurting my parents. No matter how many times I think in my head that he is not "the one" I just can't let go. I don't know why. All I know right now is that I am so sad and just waiting to be happy again...but that seems to be really really far away. I just don't know what to do anymore. Any advice would be great. thanks a lot.
| By Indiangirl on Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - 01:49 am: |
Hopeless
I think you really need to think about this. First, do your parents know about him? If they don't, have you considered the idea of just maybe presenting them with a hypothetical situation....sometimes, our parents surprise us with their attitudes!! You might want to find out how exactly would they feel about this. Second, you are right about being scared.....but the question here that comes in is how much are you willing to put yourself through for him? Do you think that your feelings for him are that strong?? Because it seems as if you already have reservations about you two regardless of what your parents might or might not say. Then, I would suggest stop spending time with him, if you see him, leave it to hi/hello.....I know that's hard, but that's the only way you will ever move on.......that is very important......"out of sight, out of mind" does work!!!!! try it!!! and, you will see, happiness will be knocking at your door soon enough!!!!
| By SAM on Tuesday, November 23, 1999 - 10:06 pm: |
Basic western & eastern philosophies are different & will definitely result in a lot of hurt for the person who beleives in eastern philosophy.This is for two people who beleive in two different philosophies
& are planning to settle together.
However Indian children who have grown up in U.S./Europe have never imbibed the eastern philosophies & are western in their outlook.So they should be allowed to marry the Britishers/Americans
whose upbringing is based on western philosophies.And
should never be asked to marry any Indian from India.
The two are incompatible.
| By kavita on Friday, December 03, 1999 - 06:16 pm: |
I am doing a research paper on Arranged Marriages as relates to Intercultural ethical perspectives. Can someone help find resources, journal articles or books?
| By Shocked on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 03:09 pm: |
Hi friends,
There are so many people in the same boat and i always thought i was drowing alone! even then the process of drowning does not become too pleasant! there is an interesting statement that INDIANGIRL has made-parents surprise you with their attitude. Believe me that happens-but most of the time it is an UNPLEASANT surprise. The same parents which used to pose so open-minded when it was not their son/daughter, who helped daughter of their friends marry the guy she liked, were SO TENSE when their son told them that he wants to marry a girl from a lower caste. And the poor son has gone too far away to come back; not physically, emotionally. he is so attached to the girl, he simply cant leave her crying. poor guy is also attached to his parents who tacitly, unspokenly give a message that they will spoil their own life if he did not forget the girl.
had i known this would be their reaction i would not have gone that far. i could not have informed them earlier as i was still a student and they would have never taken me seriously; more than that i did not want them to say yes to a college going son-how would they then stop him from dating too often , how would they be sure that their son is not spoiling his studies and career, so i made a career out of my studies and went to them after that.
it has been almost an year since their behaviour forced me to break a relationship; i am not over with it and doubt if i ever would be; i know the girl is also not over with it though i have not talked to her for a long long time. i guess she would be getting married against her wishes.
crazy me, still thinks it is a joke that nature is playing and we would soon be together; she, me and my parents.
| By Shocked on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 12:30 pm: |
I had written a message yesterday. it was there on the board till some time back but is not here now. whatever happened to it!!!
| By Editor on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 01:32 pm: |
To Shocked
Well I guess you are too shocked.
Please refresh your Browser or start your Pc.
Your message posted yesterday is there.
By Shocked on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 07:39 am:
See on top of your todays message.
| By JadeKitty on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 06:37 am: |
Dear Friends,
I feel so much better knowing that I am not alone in my dilemma. You see, I have been in a relationship with the sweetest guy for about a year now. We were actually set up by one of my friends and I had never expected it to get so serious. We have talked about marriage in the future but we are both worried (actually deathly afraid) of what our parents will say. At first his parents knew of our relationship and gave their consent. However, after a few months, they wanted him to end it for reasons undisclosed by them. He told them that he did but they still suspect otherwise. Now, I am afraid to even mention him to my parents. They are very stict and believe in arranged marriage only. I love both my parents and him very much and I don't want to hurt either one. Here's the worst part. Even if I do get enough courage to ask them, they will say no because he is Gujurati and I am a south Indian Bhramin. It's unheard of (for my parents)for a Bhramin girl to marry a Gujurati boy. What should I do? They stongly believe in caste system and arranged marriage. Not to mention, they have a strong dislike for Gujurati people. I love them both so much and don't want to lose either one.
| By divya on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 10:33 am: |
Jadekitty - is it your life? I am also Indian but I will not submit to a traditional arranged marriage. My parents already know this. I want to know someone fairly well before I will marry them. During this life time I will marry a man that I love not one that is only compatible with my family's requirements. While finding one which I love and is compatible with my family is ideal I realize this may not happen. Their requirements are too specific and many of them are quite silly. For example, in regards to skin color. If I find someone who is kind and intelligent and interesting I will not not date them because they are darker then me. Thats ridiculous. Also, in regards to caste I will not limit my dates to only those from my caste. This is not a good system to begin with. While I realize you do not want to disappoint your parents you should also think about disappointing yourself. Are you going to be happy marrying a virtual stranger?? If you do decide to meet some men your parents recommend then make sure you "date" them. Dont agree to marry them within a month. You really need to value your life and realize the most important decision you will ever make is in regards to who you marry. Take the time to get to know whoever it is you may marry. Do not make the mistake of marrying a stranger. You may regret it for the next 70 years. I know its not a gamble I am not willing to take.
| By InSearchOfSolution on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 11:19 am: |
hi divya,
what would you suggest to someone who loves both his parents as well as his lady love but his parents feel that if he married to this lower caste lady they will not be able to live and tacitly give an indication of unnatural death occuring because of that-heart attacks and stuff-you know what i mean. i know its basically emotional blackmail but can one afford to take a chance. can one afford to loose precious love? what should one do?
| By Mita on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 07:52 pm: |
hey everyone this is mita u know from the top of the page well i want to tell everyone thankyou for ur support because everything worked out at the end, and all of u that wrote to me thanks it took a while but things worked out...and about me and my b/f we broke up and now things r good, and almost back to normal.
luv alwayz,
mita
| By divya on Sunday, January 30, 2000 - 01:50 pm: |
In Search of - I dont think parents should black mail their children into doing things. To say they will die because their child will not submit to an arranged marriage is absurd. They are being immature and their bluff should not be entertained. Again, while I respect my parents and other elders I also respect myself. I am not their fool who will do anything to please them, even when I feel it is not correct. So to answer your question, one should live their life in a moral and correct way which does not neccessarily mean doing whatever it takes, including sacrificing their love, to please their parents. Particularly, in the circumstance you seem to be describing, when their parents are restricting them from marrying someone based upon ignorance and predjiduce. I know this may shock many here but Indian parents are NOT always right.
| By InSearchOfSoln on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 08:42 pm: |
thank you divya for replying...
| By Leena on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 05:37 pm: |
OK, here's another perspective on the arranged marriage...did anyone happen to watch "Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionare," and what did you think about it, *especially* in light of the aftermath?
Just curious....because I was appalled. At least in the arranged marriages I know of, both the man and woman have some idea/understanding of what their future mate is like. These women had no idea, and they were willing to marry a guy they knew nothing about, just beacuse of his bucks!
| By Dexter on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 06:17 pm: |
Leena,
Yes I did watch that program unfortunately. It was my job to broadcast that program in my hometown. The tv station that I work at is a local FOX station.
It's funny that you mention arranged marriage with the program in particular. Some with think that arranged marriages start off with two strangers meeting each other and they're united, which it doesn't work that way.
As little as I know about arranged marriages, the arrangement is done by either the parents of the groom or the parents of the bride, or both sets of parents together. Let me know if I'm wrong.
But this sorry excuse for a TV show, where 50 different women (I hate to say it) are literally prostituting themselves on national television to marry a man that they don't know, never had heard of or never have seen before, just solely for his money.
I can't believe that there were women who were gullible enough to get on national tv in order to be eligible to marry an invisible man who's happens to be a multi-millionaire. They were being paraded around like a beauty pageant, with the swimsuit competition, evening gown competition, etc. But instead of the female contestants competing for a beauty pageant crown, they're competing for a WEDDING RING. Now what's wrong with this picture?
I'm a heterosexual guy and I hated the show. For instance, the other 49 women that the millionaire didn't pick as a wife. What's going to happen to them when they go back to their hometowns? Does anybody think that some of the guys will have second thoughts about dating them? There has to be a few guys who knew some of them before going on television and some are probably saying "If $$$ is the only reason for her getting with me, then she'll might dump me like a bad habit if I end up broke. She might not give me the time of day if I'm not rich enough."
Now he's getting an anullment from his wife because of the controversy of a past abusive relationship from an ex-fiance'. That's probably why they didn't show his face until he picked out his wife near the end of the show. He probably would've been sued by his ex or would've gotten arrested by the cops there and then that would be the end of the show.
I'm just rambling on, but I hope you know what I was talking about.
| By Leena on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 06:55 pm: |
Hi Dexter,
You're right about the traditional definition of an arranged marriage...it's usually a community (parents, relatives, sometimes family friends) who do the arranging based on socio-cultural commonalities.
I'm defining this as an arranged marriage, because...well, it is an arrangement! Two people get together without really knowing each other because they each have something that the other values. In this case, the 50 women wanted to marry, esp. someone with money. The man wants to marry someone, he has certain criteria in mind (hence the questions).
The notion of an arranged marriage doesn't bother me - I don't happen to prefer an arrangement for my self, in this day and age, but that's not to say it doesn't work for some people. But what bothers me about potential arranged marriages is that there is so much uncertainty - what do you really know about a person before you marry them, other than they're from the same community, caste, eat the same food, speak the same language?
I guess that's why I'm doubly bothered by the show - the women went into it totally blind, although the guy had some idea (at least of what they looked like, what kinds of views and perspectices they had) of what the ladies were like.
We're supposed to live in a progressive society, one where self-determination is the norm. So why would anyone give up their ultimate right to choose?! These 50 women did...and in some ways, so did the man. They gave up their right to have all the knowledge they could about their potential mate.
I suppose giving up the right to choose is a choice in itself. Oh well.
| By loafer on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 02:42 pm: |
Hi folks,
You seem to discuss with a preset notion that arranged marriges are bad. The main point that you have for love marraige is that you get to know the person before deciding. But my friends, meeting a person on weekends over dinner is quite different from actually living together. What do you have to say of alarming number of divorce rates in the west.
Choosing the correct partner is a risk that we all have to take at some point in our lives. If the person comes from a similar social and economic background, probability of the sticking together is more. This is where arranged marriage can help. REMEMBER THAT ARRANGED MARRIAGE IS DIFFERENT FROM FORCED MARRIAGE. After selecting a partner from the right background, the boy and girl are allowed to meet to decide for themselves whether to proceed or not. In arranged marriages you let your brain decide, not you heart or hormones.
I have nothing personal against either love or arranged marriages. The ultimate aim of either should be to get the 'ideal' partner.
Long Live Arranged Marriages!!
| By Standing on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 12:44 am: |
Loafer, I not sure what you see as negative. The reason why there aren't similar divorce rates in India is because it really isn't possible for many people to get divorced. Divorced women have an incredibly difficult time and are often ostracized from society. It's seen as a blight on the family. So, instead, people stay in abusive, loveless, and sad marriages. Is this is your idea of success? I think it's tragic and it's slowly changing as more and more Indians come to the US and as you see the idea of what constitutes an 'arranged marriage' changing. Even you say that arranged marriages shouldn't be forced (but unfortunately they still are).
I wonder if you are against inter-racial marriages?
| By Anonymous on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 04:53 pm: |
Hello everybody,
I agree with standing, women in India or Indian women elsewhere though in bad marriages tend not to get a divorse for various reasons. In India mostly societal reasons plus the custody of the children is given to the parent who has greater income. If not wealther parent. In most cases if would be the man who is wealthier or has bigger income. Invariable the woman's parents would have gone bankrupt just in performing a marriage.
Women who married men through arranged or so called love marriages, living out side India have different set of pressures. This is what is called keeping up with the Jonses. Not in the American sense; keeping up with the other emigrated families, especially within the Indian community. More and more the previous generation is also coming to this country in the name of helping out and making their children's home permenant residence. These extended families start putting the similar pressures that you see in India. The Technological developments have not helped women in that, gossips fly. In all the young daughter-in-law is victim of all kinds of pressures. children come into picture, makes it even harder to get a divorse. Thus history repeats in new environments with new pressures.
Men definetly want the best of both worlds. If any man says that he disagrees, look at yourself in the mirror when your family is visiting or bad mouthing your wife; in all of this you don't feel they are wrong, or they are entitled, or you don't have the guts to say "I love my wife, I disagree with you". The day men can say to thier mothers "mom you are an honered guest in our home as long as you respect the fact that this is our home not just mine".
| By Standing on Wednesday, March 08, 2000 - 06:08 pm: |
Another thing that confuses me is what seems to be hypocracy around adultery. I'm now aware of many Indian men whose marriage was arranged who are involved in adulterous affairs. Of course, affairs can happen in any type of marriage, but (despite the rhetoric) you don't go into an arranged marriage for love. While people who believe in the arranged marriage system seem pretty vocal against relationships outside of marriage, I think women often tolerate it or don't speak about it, to preserve their own security and social status. This seems to really work in favor of men. Am I right about this? If a woman you knew was married to someone having an affair, would you encourage her to divorce (and face the loss of security, social stigma, etc.)?
| By Kamran on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 05:48 pm: |
Why do people expect different attitudes in an Arranged marriage than a non. People are people. Now days when you get married, under any system ie love or arranged, you can expect that one partner sooner or later will have an affair, you expect that there will be a chance of divorce. Marriage is a big gamble. This is how I approach it: When I go meet a girl and she tells me that she doesn't go to clubs or never has had a boyfriend or never been with a boy, I figure she's lying, especially if she's in or has graduated form university/college.
| By Standing on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 06:00 pm: |
Oh man Kamram. Don't you see how twisted that is? Why would you assume she is lying? Why is it necessary that she lie??? That seems totally backwards and not a good foundation for a life partner.
Arranged marriages and love marriages happen for very different reasons. In an arranged marriage, you may have only met your spouse the day before or for a few days a couple of years ago. Having an affair, then, is not so much a betrayal to the person, but rather a potential betrayal to the institution of marriage. I think it's easier and much more common for women in love marriages to speak out or end the relationship. Men hold alot of power here--perhaps you can't see that?
| By Carmen on Saturday, March 11, 2000 - 01:52 am: |
Kamran,
I think your point is on the money. Your thoughts on the issue of marriage, whether love or arranged, is not twisted. Some die hard Indians still expect to keep old traditional practices in tact even during the 21st Century as the world keeps changing around them...This is a mystery to me and a mistake by Indians to continue living life based on patterns of the past that don't work today. No matter how much some Indians refuse to accept change, it will be a force to reckon with in the future. You can't stop change when the time has come to change.
| By sameer on Saturday, March 11, 2000 - 09:04 am: |
kamran, i think you are twisted in your thoughts. is that why u got screwed.
| By Kamran on Monday, March 13, 2000 - 03:23 am: |
Sammer,
I'm not sure what you mean by saying that 'is that why you got screwed?'. I was born and raised in Canada. I am in the final phase of my university career. I am in the process of looking for a partner, with the help of parents and other relatives. I'm not a saint...and I don't pertend to be. I go to the Indian Jams and I see what goes on. I see girls and guys act one way on the saturday night and than I see them the next morning at the temple acting in a totally opposite way. I'm not saying anything is wrong with that but when a parent comes up to me and tells me that there girl is in University and has lived in residence but she is all homely, I take it with a grain of salt. Because honestly parents really don't know what the kids are doing. Thats just the way is when you are expected to live in two different cultures. I don't live with blinders on. I'm sure that the girl I will marry will probably of had a boyfriend and that doesn't bother me. I just want the girl to be honest when I meet her and tell me. I'm also aware that my marriage will not be like of our parents era, divorce and affairs are now a strong possibility.
| By Leena on Thursday, March 16, 2000 - 07:11 pm: |
Bless you, Kamran, for being a realist!
:)
| By Anonymous on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 04:16 am: |
Is it common for Indian men who had arranged marriages to have affairs? I am madly in love with an Indian man in the US (I am American) who is the same age as my parents. He had an arranged marriage and basically told me had no real relationship with his wife and that she didn't care that we were involved in business activities together.
Well, it changed from business to love after many months. He started out telling me that he loved me the first time he ever saw me and that he knew he would eventually win me over. I had no plans for anything other than friendship. But now I am completely in love with him. Do any of you have any input. I know it is morally wrong and I am trying to end it, but of course when I see him I am so happy to be with him that I don't end it. I have never known anyone like him. I adore him.
What can I do?
| By Anonymous on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 04:23 am: |
He is a jerk.Ignore him and he will go away.He is probably trying to curry sympathy for some sex.
| By Leena on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 04:51 pm: |
Is this man still married, what's his relationship with his wife?
| By Kamran on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 07:20 pm: |
Anonymous,
If he has no loyalty towards his current wife why do you think he will behave different towards you. He wants to get laid and you seem to be willing to help him. Ask for money and see what his reaction his.
| By Standing on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 11:52 pm: |
Anonymous,
Yes this does happen. Affairs are sometimes 'ignored' to preserve the 'marriage' or at least the appearance of a marriage. This man, since he's older, probably had never fallen in love (or even dated) before he got married. Apparently he didn't end up falling in love with his wife (whom he may not have even known when they got married).
Although it's often easy (and even permitted) to have an affair, divorce is much tougher in Indian culture.
| By Anonymous on Monday, March 20, 2000 - 10:12 pm: |
To Leena, yes he is still married and says he has no real relationship with his wife, he works all the time even staying all night at his office working, sleeps in a separate room and doesn't seem to ever go anywhere with her.
To Kamran, I think he would be different with me because he fell in love with me. His wife he met only a few minutes before they married. As far as him only be interested in sleeping with me, we were very close friends for close to a year before there was even a kiss or a hug. And concerning money, he is extremely generous. He has tried to buy a home for me but I would not allow him to. He is constantly doing the kindess things, many of which have been very expensive, but even more importantly were so thoughtful.
To Standing: Should I give up any hope that he will divorce his wife? Of course since I am not very familiar with the culture it is hard for me to understand how it could be so much pressure, when he has lived in the US for probably 30 years. His mother is visiting him from India, but it's not as though he would have family here to pressure him. I feel so awful. I would never want some one to put their wife through the pain of a divorce, so I know i have to end this, but I have never experienced a love like this (I have been married...terrible relationship). I adore him! I think I will never be able to care about another man like I do him because they could never live up to how wonderful he is.
I don't believe he is only interested in sleeping with me since he treated me wonderfully for over a year with no physical contact and it's not like I'm some thin, beauty. If he was only interested in that he could have found some one more attractive and some one who would hav given in much easier. I can't stand to be away from him. But now I am feeling terrible that I let it go this far because if I end it, it will be bad enough to go through the pain myself, but thinking of him being hurt is more than I could stand.
Please give me advice from the cultural perspective.
It would be easier for me to understand if he were another "american" but I know that the culture has a bearing on so much of his life.
HELP
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 21, 2000 - 11:37 pm: |
I am doing a research paper on arranged marriages vs. love marriages and I'm really more curious to hear some experiances, good or bad. I don't agree with arranged marriages, but I would be very interested to talk to people that do. Personally, I could never imagine what an arranged marriage would be like, considering that most of the research that I have found has been negative. For instance, is it true that the husbands of an arranged marriage are allowed to have mistress'? Being American, I don't beleive that is acceptable. Basically, I've read that their is limited love, effort, and time put into arranged marriages. How much of this is accurate?
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 - 02:05 am: |
It is not allowed for the people involved in arranged marriages to have a mistress.Sometimes the couple will not go for a divorce in the interst of the children but there is very rare.
| By Joseph on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 - 05:49 pm: |
Hi Anonymous,
Arranged marriage is just another route to the prcess of marriage. And has both advantages and disadvantages like any other route you take. Although it is true that it works only for the people whose mindset has been nurtured through their upbringing and customs that goes with it. It cannot be forced upon.
So coming to the point, the marriage through arrangement still holds the same principles and ethics of marriage of any kind. And so mistress is not the part of a marriage picture. There are customs of harem and multiple wives which were practiced century ago were part of the custom of the religion or culture, and not because of the type of marriage. Centuries ago, there was only one route to a marriage, and that was by arrangement.
what you may be referring to is the effect of rigidness of a society's belief that marriage is for the lifetime with one partner, despite of spousal abuse or incompatibility. This fosters a sense of immunity in mind of an adulterer, , knowing that S/he will not face consequences despite of the adulterous behavior. But that does nor mean it is ethical in arranged marriage or it is practiced because of arranged marriage.
So with a right mindset, arranged marriage works for the like minded people. After marriage, one hope to develop love, but effort and commitment are as common as you see in any other type of marriages.
| By Standing on Thursday, March 23, 2000 - 06:07 am: |
Anonymous, I'm not sure what advice I can give you, as I'm in a similar situation (and I'm also American). I can't seem to get much information on divorce....there's a website at Emory University that gives legal info; but that's probably not much help to you. There was a success story--a man who divorced his wife and married his girlfriend--on the board; but there have also seen the opposite--people staying in arranged marriages to avoid being shut out by their family, etc. Much depends on his situation. I've decided to give an ultimatum and the date is fast approaching. Good Luck!
I don't want to give Anonymous2 that all arranged marriages are bad. However, some parents do still force their children into them through a variety of measures; and these are probably the negative stories you hear.
| By yyy on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 07:01 am: |
Hello people of course there is going to be someone committing adultry in an arranged marriage if the does not wish to get out. most arrangements allow the husband to do as he pleases. That has been my experience. Let's get with this time and age. If you will not get out of something as a woman because of repercussions then the husband sees it and says to hell with it. I will have my cake and eat it too. It's human nature especially if it was forced by the family. if the wife does not respect herself why would the guy who does not love her even care if he is caught. No one else cares. They only care if they stay together. That is what looks good. Wake up people.
| By Lisa on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 08:39 pm: |
Dear Anonymous:
The one that is with the man that is in the arranged marriage. The only advice that I can give to you is that you should really consider not being with this man. Yes, he may be deeply in love with you and you with him. He is however married to a woman. The woman is not you unfortunately. I am very sure that you are a very nice person and he does see your good qualities. You need to understand one thing though. If he has been living in the US for 30 years and has bee so unhappy in his marriage he should have done something about his situation a long time ago. Now you are dragged into his life. Think about it for a moment. Would you ever do that to him. You seem so nice that you wouldn't hurt him that much. He will not leave his wife because he is ruled by some family hold. He has been here for 30 years and he should have developed his own independence by this time. You have probably heard this before but it sounds to me like he is not strong enough to go after what he wants out of life. He will be free for you when his wife is dead. Sorry to be so blunt but I can sense this in him. If you are willing to be the other woman forever then by all means continue the relationship. You, however seem to be the type that does not want to be second to anyone. Even if he loves you deeply his priorities will always be with his wife no matter what he tells you. I hope this will help you a little. Believe me when I tell you this, I speak from some experience.
| By Anonymous#1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 12:55 am: |
Thanks for the responses. I actually went about 4 days without talking to him and then I build up the strength to think I will end it. But now I have talked to him and just the sound of his voice is all it takes. The most amazing part of this is that I have always been so judgemental of other people's morality. No one who knows me would ever believe I am doing this. I guess I am so close to the situation that I can't see it clearly. He started out in the friendship telling me that he loved me the first time he ever saw me. I was only interested in friendship, but he has been so perfect for sucha long time. But the first time I kissed him, it was over.
I have never felt this way about anyone. He is 20 years older than I am and he is married!! How could this have happened. He has given me the impression that his wife probably thought there was something going on long before there was ever anything but friendship. He has even taken me to his house before when she was there. And she was so nice to me. ( I would never be able to do that now because I would feel so guilty!) But looking back, I now feel as though I might have been on display for her. First she is older, but much more attractive than I am. He brought me back gifts from a trip and he told me that I could even call her and thank her to prove that she knew he had done it. So what I really need is some help understanding this. I am beginning to feel that
maybe he just set out from the beginning with his wife's knowledge that he found somebody that he would like to get for a girlfriend. But he really was dishonest in the beginning making me feel there was a possibility for for a future and has slowly toned down what he says to where he now says that he wishes he could be married to me, but he can't because too many people would be hurt. When he first started telling me his feelings and I would tell him to stop
(he would say "I love you" and my reply was always
"you can't.") he would say that he had spent his whole life doing things to make other people happy and now for the first time he wanted to be happy. Is it a reality that even a man who is 50 is still bound by his culture to stay with an arranged marriage because it is not acceptable for him to divorce? Do you think it is likely that he and his wife were never in love and so she doesn't care if he goes and gets a girlfriend as long as she still stays VERY WELL financially taken care of and he doesn't divorce her? But I know that it is still wrong for me to do such an awful thing to her. It is no excuse, but I love him so much. I know this is a crazy question, you can't stereotype people, but is there something very romantic and erotic about Indian men and the Indian culture? I am deeply in love with him and was for quite a while before there was ever anything physical, but I have never experienced anything like being with him (physically)! Just his touch is incredible. Which of course makes it that much more difficult to resist him. Please write any input you have. This is driving me crazy. I feel so guilty but I also can't stand to be away from him. It is actually physically painful. I know there is no hope that I can ever have him, is there?
| By Anonymous #1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 01:28 am: |
To Standing: I can't believe I have found some one in the same situation! What ultimatum did you give him?
As badly as I want to be with him, I don't think I could ever live with the guilt of knowing that I made him divorce his wife. And since I am also a Christian
(yes I know what hypocrit I am!) I truly think divorce is wrong, but so is what we are doing. How did you relationship start? I think the worse part of all of this is that I don't think I will ever be able to find another man who will measure up to this guy. I am going through my own divorce, which was a terrible thing that I stuck with no matter how miserable I was, but my husband wanted to end it and din't care if I thought divorce was wrong. But even having been married to him since I was a teenager and having children with him, I love this guy so much more than I think I ever did him. This man is such a wonderful combination of total masculinity but so deeply caring and sensitive. I have never met anyone like him. And though other people would not look at him and think he was some incredibly handsome guy, when I look at him there is no one I find more attractive. Just the slightest touch from him is incredible. I am usually such a strong independent person, and I find myself thinking that I would let him totally dominate me. I feel like he takes care of me (and I would usually not want that!) And I have never been a jealous person, but I have come to the point of where just thinking of him touching some one is more than I can handle. And he's married! Of course he says he doesn't sleep with his wife, but I can't even stand the thought of them in the same house. It's not that I feel bad things towards her, he belongs to her (OH THAT HURTS!)but I still can't handle thinking of those things. Please share any of your feelings. How did this happen to you? How are you handling it? Is your boyfriend close to your age?
And to Lisa: You said you are speaking from experience. I take it that your experience was not a good one? How did you handle it?
| By Lisa on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 02:10 am: |
Dear Anonymous #1
Please read my story on another thread entitled:
Deep in love, finding a solution to the Triangular afairs (something like that)
Good Luck to you
Lisa
| By Standing on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 05:39 am: |
Anonymous #1-you can find more information on my situation there too. We seem to have gotten to similar places by very different paths. How old are your children? Do they know?
| By Anonymous #1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 10:26 pm: |
To Standing and Lisa,
I have 2 daughters 18 and 8 and i know that they think this is some weird relationship. They know him pretty well from when we first started being friends. He has done some incredibly generous and nice things for them for birthdays etc. but I know they would never handle their mother having a boyfriend even though their dad is the one ending it. (Yes, deep down I was glad, because I have always been the one who was miserable but would put up with anything. Him divorcing me gives me some crazy peace of mind that I'm not the one who did the bad thing in finally ending it!) And of course my kids know he is married even though they know it is a situation of where he never goes anywhere with her and is always at work (even sleeps there sometimes), but I have brought them up to have the same strict religious beliefs that I have always had (that's why this is so AWFUL!)
so they would go crazy thinking I would do something so awful. But I think it is obvious to every one around how we feel. Except I think some people would think that since he so much older than I am that nothing would ever come of it. He says things to me now that when my divorce is final I will want to go find some young guy I can marry. But the truth the age difference is what makes it even more appealing. I like the thought of him taking care of me. I actually like it when he tells me what to do. I am a very independent person who every one would think is so professional and yet I would do about anything to get him to say "good girl" to me. I know my friends would be so insulted and would find that demeaning, but I would be happy for him to have total control of me. Yes, I know that's crazy and I wouldn't like it for long, but I'm just being honest. But of course I wouldn't feel that way, if he hadn't been the most wonderful, kind, generous, sensitive, caring person I have ever known. He is constantly doing things both big and small that shows how much he cares. If I ever mention that I like something he never forgets and will try to do that for me. Just simple things.
But then I am wondering why if he was that way with his wife things are not good between them. He was probably a total jerk to her. And he is so kind to my children and always thinking of things they would like, but he doesn't seem as close to his kids. He says it is because they are boys and they don't feel close to him, they prefer their mother and exclude him from things. (Like I wanted to make a big deal of his birthday, and he said that none of his family did, but who knows if that's true and also I don't know if it's cultural ) I have to be more assertive with him. I am always giving myself deadlines to end the inappropriate part of our relationship (yes I am crazy enough to think I can be "just friends" with him) but they come and go. At some point I will have to say, "if you are ever available, let me know. Because I adore you and I will be miserable without you, but I have to have some self respect not to play second (actually 3rd behind his wife and work) although there have never been any times where I ever felt he put her ahead of me, but still. I also have to end it because religously it makes me a nervous wreck thinking I am doing something so wrong, and of course I can never get away from the fact that it is wrong simply because he is some else's husband. How could I do something so awful to someone?? My own father had affairs and I hated him for it (I love him hated what he did) and hated the girlfriend even more!
But of course when we discuss this we both see why what we are doing is not as bad as what my dad did! it's crazy! Oh, what I would do to be in his wife's position. And it makes me crazy thinking that she has it and from what he says doesn't want it. I know I don't get the real story, but from my view, if I were her I would be so good to him.
Thank you for replying to my crazy questions. It really does help so much to talk to some one else in the same situation. What is it about the men you love that make them so incredible? I can't imagine ever finding some one like him again! Is that how you feel?
| By Anonymous#1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 10:36 pm: |
To Lisa:
I found your story and i had read it previously on one of the days I was in despair and looking for some one to talk to about my situation. It broke my heart. But what has happened since February, where those posts end? Is he still with his wife? Are you still waiting? I do see that your situation is different in that the wife had full knowledge of everything before. She knew what she was getting into. I think I would really have some bad feelings toward her. it is hard enough to for me with this wife who is totally not at fault, to still not have feelings of resentment. But I know she is the only one who has right to HATE ME! But you had him first, how could she have gone through with the marriage? And was she already in love with him before they married or was she even close to him?
| By Lisa on Thursday, March 30, 2000 - 04:39 am: |
Well Anonymous 1:
I'm sorry that this is hurting you so much. I totally understand. I have been doing well since February. First of all, with the help from the discussion board and from a very caring friend to listen and gently guide me,I have come to realize that the situation was hopeless. If he wanted to be with me he would have taken the proper steps, end of story. This has taken me a long time to understand. He is responsible for his life, not his wife, not me only him. I have no ill feelings towards her. She was promised to him and went along with the marriage. If he didn't want it he should not have gone through with it. It doesn't matter what culture a person comes from, if someone wants something they will get it. I just think now that he just didn't see that the effort was really worth it for him. Yes, this realization did hurt me but it is true. I figured it out by placing myself in his shoes. I realized that I would have done anything in the world to be with him. That is what true love is. Love is totally giving of yourself to a person without being selfish. He was being selfish because he was pleasing and fulfilling a family obligation and finding happiness in me at the same time, eventhough it was slowly killing me inside. That is not love. If he could watch my pain which was so raw and exposed and continue with his marriage and try to give me hope then his interests were really not with me at all. I would not do that to him, ever. I hope this helps you a little. I'm telling you Anonymous 1 it wasn't easy to figure this out. Maybe your situation is different but please think hard about what you are doing. Talk to a friend that you can count on to listen to you and not be too judgemental. Someone that you trust and that is smart. Don't look at it as a Cultural thing look at him as a man. I hope I am of some help to you. Keep in touch.
Lisa
| By Anonymous #1 on Friday, March 31, 2000 - 12:02 am: |
Lisa,
How long has it been since you talked to him? I have come to the point where I do not allow myself to call him (unless it is something totally necessary concerning some of the business type stuff we are involved in), I wait for him to call me. But the moment I hear his voice, I am so happy to hear from him. He knows how I feel about this being wrong and he will sometimes say things about me not wanting to talk to him. but of course I want to talk to him. He does live in another city about an hour and a half away, so I don't get to see him as often. I am sure it is better that he lives away. If he were right here in the same city, I would never be able to stay away from him. The moment I see him I am ecstatic.
How is your former boyfriend handling not being with you? That is one of the things that bothers me the most - if I end it I will feel so bad that I let it go this far because I will feel terrilbe if he is hurt, which I really believe he would be. I may be going to his city tomorrow, but I am trying to make myself take some other people with me so that I won't be alone with him! But he will be wonderful to everyone anyway.
I just can't confide in anyone, because I can't let them know I have done something so wrong. My sister has an idea of how I feel about him, but she would never dream that we have actually become involved. She would never believe I would do that. I feel like such a fake! I would be telling anyone else what a terrible immoral person they were, that they were just being selfish, that they do not have the option of loving somebody who is married no matter what the circumstances.
But he is so wonderful. I love him so much it hurts! It would be bad enough just being away from him because of the distance, but I have to be realistic that I can never have him. But he really did make me believe before that I could eventually have him. He started all of this. He would say things like "don't you wish you were married to me" and I would tell him no because after he was around me for long I would drive him crazy, religious differences, etc. And that would upset him that I wouldn't say I wanted to marry him. And he would always tell me what he would do if he were married to me. But now it is different.
Has your boyfriend tried to stay in contact with you? Is he upset?
Thanks for your help.
| By Lisa on Saturday, April 01, 2000 - 01:28 am: |
Although we live about 5km apart, we don't run into each other. I have no idea how he feels but I'm sure he is fine. He made the choice so he must live with the consequences. I was the foolish one for hoping he would be free to be with me.
| By Anonymous #1 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 07:59 pm: |
Lisa,
Isn't it crazy how something as simple as this message board can help you see things more clearly! I know it is helping me to a certain extent. I saw him on Friday when I had to go to his city. He spent some time with me, but nothing compared to what he would have before. I know he truly is very busy with his company, but I had to go to a meeting after I saw him which involved some of his interests and there was some very important information I needed to let him know and I called his office for several hours all evening and he was not there. That has happened more lately, and I am beginning to face the fact that even though he has been busy with work, the main reason he has not spent as much time with me lately probably has to do with his wife. And I am so stupid that I never confront him about it. If he has any relationship what so ever with his wife, then I am done. And it was probably incredibly stupid for me to have believed him from the beginning. But it was so convincing, he would be constant companion at that time. He looked for any excuse for us to be together.
He would take days and go on trips to any meetings, etc. that I would be at.
But of course when I saw him on Friday, I was so thrilled to be with him. I did not want to do or say anything that would waste the little bit of time I had with him. But why when I talked to him on Saturday, when he finally returned the messages I left (that were important to him), why didn't I say why are you just calling on Saturday afternoon from messages left from 8:00 p.m. on Friday. He is usually always at his office all night. I guess it's pretty plain for everyone else to see. It's like when I'm typing this I am realizing all the things that have happened recently!
I am beginning to wonder if there are any good men anywhere? Indian or American or from anywhere else!
I guess I have never met any of them. I am such a fool! I started writing at this message board because I couldn't understand his intentions, and I was wondering about the whole arranged marriage thing and Indian culture, and it seeming like it was OK with his wife that he had found somebody he loved since there was nothing between them. And it probably had very little to do with that. He is probably just like any other man looking for an affair. But it doesn't make sense because if he was just looking for an affair, he could have found somebody who would have given in much sooner and easier than I did and he also could have found somebody much more attractive. He has been so convincing. He made me feel like the center of the universe, he has done so many thoughtful things that most men would never think of, and from the beginning of the friendship told me he will love me for ever, no matter what happens, even if we never see each other. but you know lately it is always me telling him how much I love him (which took me almost a year to do) and he rarely says it to me anymore.
I have to get up the strength to end this, I know. I am sure there are many people reading this who will be able to tell me from their own experience how hopeless this is. Why did I let this happen?
| By Anonymous#1 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 08:05 pm: |
Standing,
How are things going with you? Any progress?
| By Anonymous #1 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 08:27 pm: |
To Lisa,
One other question? What do you think would happen if you did run into him?
I guess I am crazy enough to think that I can still remain friends with him and remain involved in the business stuff where we first became friends and just end the romance part of it. I know it will be easier because he lives in another city. And I could arrange it so that we only saw each other when other people were around in these business situations.
| By Lisa on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 04:23 am: |
Anonymous 1:
I thought pretty much the same things that you did about these men from India and Pakistan. After some time, I realized people are all individuals. Some have integrity, some are strong. We are all individuals and a group cannot be clumped according to their culture. If a man decides to have a mistress it doesn't matter where they come from they are not good men.
I was very naive about it all and I think that is what he sensed in me. You are probably a very warm, caring and loving person and that is what he was drawn to. He, however has no right to even suggest anything with a woman since he is married. You are not. Stop blaming yourself and start doing something about it. Start asking him some of the things that have been bothering you. Let him do the talking and you just listen. See what he says and you will see his intentions yourself. Really think about the way he answers your questions and then find a place at home to analyze his answers. Ask him what you want, you have nothing at all to lose at this point. I think his true colours will certainly come out and you will see that he is a very weak man after all. A strong willful man with integrity would not do to you and to his wife what he has done. As for are all men that way. Of course not. I am lucky I have found many strong, sensitive and loving men in my life. Once you let go of him you will find a strong loving man in your life too. Someone that deserves your love freely. Give it a chance.
| By Phawn on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 10:54 pm: |
HI,
What are the chances of East Asian and South Asian (Indian) marriages and lifestyles?? My boyfriend is Indian and I am Vietnamese. His group of friends seem very diverse and are from different cultures. 7 mths and he has not really told his parents about me yet. They are trying to set up an arranged marriage for him now -- maybe also b/c his past relationships (from different cultures) were unsuccessful. Any thoughts?!
| By Leena on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 09:23 pm: |
Hi Phawn, and welcome!
Tell us a little bit more about yourself and your situation...do his parents know you as a friend, how do you guys feel about each other, etc....it's hard to say without knowing each person's individual situation.
| By Anonymous#1 on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 10:17 pm: |
To Standing:
How are things for you? What has happened with the ultimatum you gave your boyfriend? I want to be able to get up the nerve to do something similar. I know it will have to be on the phone, because if I am with him in person, I will melt, and I'll be so happy to be with him that I won't want to ruin any of the time. But I want to just say, "you know how much I love you, but I am really beginning to wonder if the situation with your wife is as you said it was, and if it's not then there is no way I am going to cause problems if there is a chance things could be oK, but in any case I can't take the immorality of what I am doing. So if you are ever available, let me know. But I can't keep doing this." I used to think that he wouldn't be able to handle that and he would probably say "no, you are not ending this." But now I wonder if he would. I think what would bother him the most is worrying that because of my divorce then I would find another man. He does seem to be jealous sometimes. But then I won't feel that I told him to go get a divorce, but I will let him know that if that happens I would do anything to be with him then.
Of course, I am hoping to hear that everything turned out beautifully for you, which will give me some hope that someday there will be any chance for us.
I am going crazy! I know that the fact that this was an arranged marriage is what has allowed my conscience to get involved in this. But it was an arranged marriage from 25 years and a few children ago, so I know that it is no diffent than any other marriage, and it is just as wrong for me.
But does anybody else have any input about divorce in Indians who have lived in the US for years. I just don't understand when he doesn't really seem to be socially involved with the members of his family that are here or other Indians. Because all he does is work! But again, the situation is probably different than what he has made it seem to me. But can anybody explain to me the pressure he might feel concerning his culture and getting a divorce?
| By prasad on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 12:50 am: |
My brother-in-law, born in India, educated in USA, US citizen for more than 20 years took his US born and US educated son to India three times. Looking for bride for his son, just like he did for himself about 30 years ago.
Towards the end of his most recent, 3rd visit, 3 days before returning back to US, they "found" a girl of their liking. My brother-in-law and his family were afraid of returning empty handed 3rd time. They had "found" this "gem" just three days before returning. They were happy.
The girl and her family were hesitant of sending the girl to US. This family stayed up whole night discussing the good and bad of sending the girl to US. This girl is Engineer studying computer programming in India. The boy has MS in computer field from a very prestigious university in USA.
Anyway, after whole night of discussion the girl's family brought "proposal" to the boy's family. They agreed. Announced engagement. Had big party the next day. The day after the party, the boy's family returned back to US with photographs to show off in US.
Guess what, the girl's family were still discussing the good and bad of sending the girl to USA. After a week of further mulling over, both families called off the engagement.
Looking back, it was good that the engagement was called off. Otherwise both the girl and boy would have been misrable their whole life. At the same time both families should have sensed the hesitation early on.
Why was it necessary for them to go all the way to India when there are lot of Indian families in USA from their own religion and language. The boy is not getting any younger. Indian families tend to marry off their daughters before they pass the "marriage age". Boy and his family are getting desparate, all good picks are gone. They are worrying: what will people think, is there something wrong with the boy ?
You know the thought process among Indian families that wanted to marry their daughters to this boy. Aha, our daughter was not good enough for them, now lets see what type of girl you gonna find !!!
Tell me what you think.
| By Standing on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 06:13 pm: |
Anonymous #1,
Nothing has changed yet. I'm afraid my situation is a little different from yours in some ways that are probably critical at this point. Plus, it sounds like you've been through quite a bit already with your prior marriage.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get much information about divorce. But I would guess that your significant other feels torn between the obligation to his wife and his love for you. Remember, he didn't get married because of love. So, is it really fair to end it because of love? Especially when his wife is older? Divorced women used to fair very poorly in India as did widows. For example, widows had to wear white all the time--which in a culture that loves bright colors says quite a bit. I'm told it's getting better, but this usually comes from Indian women who are sympathetic to my situation.
I try to look at my situation that my boyfriend and I have enriched and permanently changed each others lives no matter what happens. If he makes a decision to stay in his situation, I will accept that and ultimately find the path that's been destined for me.
Good luck to you!
(Prasat, I know plenty of wonderful Indian women in their late 20s and 30s who would love to meet a nice Indian guy...perhaps less attention should be paid to the resumes and more to the chemistry!)
| By Phawn on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 07:16 pm: |
Hi Leena,
How are you? Me and my honey are in love indeed. We do talk about having a family together and the future and all. He's in the Marines right now and has less than 3 more years to go. I'm a college grad and just working now. No, his parents have never met me in person. He says his parents know of me but I guess they presume it's just another phase he's going thru.
Even tho I know it's a tradition and all, his parents have lived here for a while and are well-educated people. Which means although they will hate the idea of their only son marrying outside the race, in time, I believe they will accept it no matter what. His last ex-gf was also of Eastern Asian decent and he said he was going to marry her anyways too. RIght now, I think he doesn't want to cause a big stir with his parents right now and trying to be on their good side too. He did mess up before with girls in the past so they are just looking out for his best interest (so they say sometimes).
I guess I wanted to hear that I would have a better chance than a non-Asian person would. But I see that even religion and subclasses within the Indian caste makes it difficult as well no matter if you're from Indian descent or not. I sure do hope that in time your country's culture and attitude towards love and sexuality changes for the well-being of us all. Even here in AMerica, it feels like you are still imprisoned in your own mind and body w/out freedom to express it openly. It has to be done secretly or be forever shunned from your own community.
Things will work out in the end if you have the determination and will to change it all. Take care friends.
| By Stop It on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 09:30 pm: |
Hi, I just got engaged recently in a smei-arranged way. We do see each other and talk on the phone and we are looking forward to the big day. She is good looking, and I like that. The problem is that everybody else also thinks she's good looking, I mean other guys. You know what I'm sayin? When I talk on the phone with her she always tells me that some guy asked her out at work and so on. I don't like hearing those things. I don't think that she would cheat on me but if what she says is true how long can she resist the temptaion. I mean when guys are always asking you out there's gotta be one that would make her weak. I'm not pssessive or jealous but I asked her to stop telling me but she manages to sneak a story in once awhile. She never says no to them she just smiles and so on. If she does cheat on me before our marriage date it's over and after well it'll be definetly over. I already told her not to cheat on me but instead call off the engagement or file for divorce and then she can go and be with that other person.
| By mastladki on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 12:33 pm: |
Hi everyone,
Like most of you I discovered this site in complete accident. I was actually researching the divorce laws in India, so if anyone can share any information about that...it would be very nice. Well, after reading many of the comments on this page, all of which were very interesting, I would like to share my viewpoint.
I was born in India, but when I was about six, my family moved to the USA. I am now a college student and have lived almost my entire life in America. I have a very close knit family, with a younger brother and an older sister, and I think all of us have worked really hard to create a little India in the heart of America.
I mean, most of my desi friends go out and party and have boyfriends, and it never really bothered me that I chose not to do that. I am friends with Indian guys, and they ask me out, but I just say no. It's just recently that I have noticed just how different I and my family are compared to my friends and their families.
And I know that seven or eight years from now, I will get married...the arranged way. I've always felt the weight of my family's great prestige on my shoulders. And I would never diappoint them, or get married to some white, black, mexican..etc etc..
What I don't understand is that..don't the young generation of today owe anything to their parents? They raised you, went through all that trouble to make you the individual that you are. They fought your battles until you were ablet to fight your own. Aren't they allowed to have dreams for you? And what right do you have in crushing those very dreams? I mean I watch the kids here, and they are white..American in every way except their skin. And that will never be white.
I mean, anyone would probably look at me and ask if love mattered to me. My desi friends ask me that. They all balk when they hear that I will get an arranged marraige. But, believe me, I am a hopeless romantic. I think that there is one person out there meant for you. And when I do get married the arranged way...I won't be blindfolded. I mean I will get to see this guy, talk to this guy and have dinner with him...
I just think that often when people today talk about arranged marraige...they give it a bad name. Arranged marraige these days (among mature, intelligent individuals) occurs with a lot of deliberation...as in one of the major concerns in whether the two individuals who are to be joined in holy matrimony for the rest of their lives....whether they like each other and are compatible. We aren't thrown at the mandav and then the pundit whips us like bulls and we start walking our seven laps.
For me, my mom and dad both know what I want. I have the major say in my marraige. I want a guy who would make me want to smile for no reason except that I am living and it feels great to be alive with him next to me....Someone who understands that I am a workaholic and even though I look like I am self sufficient and confident...sometimes I'm just aching for someone to hold me... to tell me that I don't need to stand alone and fight my way up the corporate ladder.
Basically both love and arranged marraiges are looking for the same end result..happiness. People in each just go about it in different ways. All I wanted to do is to prove that arranged marraige in this day and age is not a blind marraige. I would love to hear other people's opinions on this.
| By anotheranonymous on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 02:25 pm: |
Mastladki:
It sounds like you know exactly what you want. That is very good. I believe the only reason that arranged marriages do get such a bad rap is because many times the decision is made before you even get to know the person. You are not allowed to date the person for very long before you have to committ to marriage. There is no backing out once you have made the committment. The other person could be dishonest. I know it is hard to believe but it happens every day. Love and marriage is a very complicated issue. Even your parents can't find out everything about a prospective life partner. No one really knows someone.
Good Luck to you
| By Standing on Monday, May 01, 2000 - 06:20 pm: |
Mastladki,
I'm sorry, but I have a hard time understanding your point that children "owe" it to their parents to let them pick their spouse because they raise them and nuture them. If I understood this, I probably would think better of my b/f's parents and the parents of many Indian friends (I'm American) who have attempted to manipulate and coerce them into arranged marriages.
I was raised by two very hard working parents. They made many sacrifices to give me opportunities that many other children didn't have. They have always given me UNCONDITIONAL love. My parents did not threaten to cut me out of their life or threaten to kill themselves if I dated someone that was a different race and were supportive as long as I was happy and healthy.
I'm sorry but I think this concept of "owing" your parents the right to let them pick the person you will share your life with is selfish and backwards.
| By Lisa on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 04:04 am: |
Right On Standing! It is totally ridiculous, childish, and barberic. How does it happen that a parent knows more about the young adult. Are people not brought up to become independent thinkers? Or are they to be clinging to the apron strings of mom and dad and aunty. How do you reach your real potential in life? If everything is set out in life what is the point of trying. Come on! Think for yourself people, please!!! Get out of the dark ages.
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 05:11 am: |
Mastladki,
Really proud of you. keep it up.
To everyone else of Indian descent who believes in arranged marriages and whose parents want them to have an arranged marriage,
Please don't listen to people like Lisa. I don't think love marriage is a bad idea. At the same time though, there is nothing wrong with an arranged marriage. In fact, in some cases arranged marriages work better than most of the non-Indian love marriages. A lot of folks in Western countries take love for granted and don't take it seriously. That's one of the reasons why they walk out of a marriage so easily. A lot of them don't even know what loving someone means. They just feel attracted to someone and they think it's love. They don't realize that they have some commitments towards the person they are supposedly in love with. They feel the same way towards someone else, they start sleeping with them.
So, now you tell me what you would rather marry, a person with some principles or a person you love and who has no idea that he/she is not supposed to date or sleep with someone else?
Take care
| By Standing on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 06:20 pm: |
Jat, I respect the fact that arranged marriages are right for some people. The problem is that many Indian young people are FORCED into them--some of them by exactly the sentiments described by Mastladki--that they "owe" it to their parents.
You've avoided this issue in your response--do you yourself believe that you should be OWED the right to pick your child's spouse? Isn't this pretty close to slavery?
Your belief that many people in the West take love for granted is absolutely ridiculous....especially since you bring it up in the concept of arranged marriage. It's the sad mantra often repeated by people who could never make their own choice to try to make themselves feel better or can't comprehend that their own parents didn't choose to be together.
Let me say again--I'm not faulting arranged marriages in general---just these sorts of manipulative tactics which end up forcing people who can't make their own decision that it is right for them into this sort of a process.
| By Jat on Friday, May 05, 2000 - 05:12 am: |
Hi Standing,
The main thing is whatever works for people. The way it used to be in India that, in an arranged marriage, people weren't even allowed to see each until they got married. But, it isn't that way anymore especially when it comes to Indians living in the Western countries. In older days, it worked that way because people were pretty much trained to live their lives that way.
As a parent, I feel that it is my responsibility that my kids find a right life partner. The chances are I won't be with them for rest of their lives. So, I have to make sure that I do whatever I can to secure their future after I am not with them anymore. It's my responsibility to provide my kids with the best I can because I am responsible for bringing them into this world even if it takes choosing a life partner for them.
I understand that Indian parents don't use proper reasoning when they want to stop their kids from doing what they (parents) don't like. They usually say it's against their culture. But, they never try to (or they don't know how to) explain it to their kids why something won't be good for them in future. Apparently, Mastladki is brought up believing that she owes this to her parents. That's just another way her parents trained her to keep her in discipline which is actually great. They are all on the same page. A lot of Indian parents in Western countries don't pay much attention to how their kids are growing when they are little and then when they (kids) turn out to be completely different from they expected, there comes a major conflict between the parents and the kids.
It's true that extreme of anything is bad and there are people who abuse the system on both sides. There are people in Indian society who abuse the 'arranged marriage' system and there are people in Western societies who take advantage of other people having freedom to choose. Some of the examples are date rapes, getting someone pregnant and taking no responsibility of the child, walking out on a marriage for no significant reason, etc... There are a lot of Indians in the Western countries also misuse the Indian system and Western freedom as well.
Take care...gotta go...
| By Divya on Friday, May 05, 2000 - 12:00 pm: |
I would never agree to an arranged marriage. I have seen too many of my friends miserable in horrible marriages. Many of my single Indian friends have chosen dating over an arranged marriage. India is changing and undoubtedly the concept of "arranged" marriages will lose popularity with the changing times. I agree with Lisa - Lets get out of the dark ages....
| By notmyrealname on Friday, May 05, 2000 - 08:38 pm: |
Hey Divya,
I guess you never see people in non arranged marriages be miserable. No...people with non arranged marriages never get divorced or have affairs...right.
I don't know where you live Divya (if that is your real name) but you have a very immature view of marriage. Did you ever stop and consider that maybe it wasn't the arranged marriage that was the problem but maybe your 'friends' (I doubt you have any because you sound very lonely) were the problem??
| By Joseph on Saturday, May 06, 2000 - 01:47 am: |
I think the reason parents who strongly nurture or imply on arranged marriage is only because of covert intentions or fear. Covert intentions regarding prejudice of religion or race, possible change of status within culture and laziness or unwillingness to change. Fear due to generalization about different religion or race, fear due to preconceived notions regarding divorce rates and ethical level.
What is forgotten in this arguments is that none of these marriage systems is perfect, in fact it is not how you marry, it is who you marry and how you both make the marriage work.
Now, the reason these parents do not know how to talk to children "their way" is because there is no such way of reasoning to justify arranged marriage concept. If you start discussion with young adult with a reasonable maturity and intelligence, there is no way the argument will go "their way". Everyone knows marriage by arrangement can surely work, it does, but to manipulate young mind with instilling fear, guilt and threat of abandonment in order to achieve their goal, that is where everyone has big problem.
| By who cares on Saturday, May 06, 2000 - 10:48 am: |
Notmyrealname (aka dumb dinosaur) - you sound angry. I guess changing times are too hard for you to handle. Go ahead and have your arranged marriage. Its the lazy man/woman's way of getting married.
| By Godzilla on Monday, May 08, 2000 - 04:32 am: |
hi who cares,
I agree with what notmyrealname. I beleive it is you that is the dumb dinoasur. Why? Well here's some food for thought for everyone.
It does not matter what kind of marraige that binds two individuals. something to think about. I am surrounded by people who live in pure bliss every day, yes they are completely in love, and u know what they had to go through the torture (as u deem it) of arranged marraige. It depends on how much a person is willing to compromise, that is the key to marraige, not matter of what kind.
I think often why Indian parents don't want their kids to be in a love marraige is because they want to protect their darlings. From what u ask? Well the Indian community in general does not change no matter where they go. Their treatment of love marraige(the gossip, the scandal) is disgusting, to these people love marraige is a joke and the people involved generally drop to the lower ranks of the Indian society. Often to protect their children from such ridicule, parents try to steer their children away from love marraige.
This does not mean i completely agree with everything Indian parents do, the above might be one of the many reasons of their behavior.
I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this. Catch u later
| By divya on Monday, May 08, 2000 - 11:38 am: |
Godzilla,
If people look down on me for having a love marriage instead of an arranged marriage I could not care less. It only shows their own stupidity and inability to accept changes within our society. Perhaps they are the ones at the bottom of the social ladder - they are probably crashing down as I type. After all they cant even think for themselves. If everyone said you should invade tokyo and pillage the city tomorrow would you?? I don't think so. I do not take marriage lightly. That is why I will not take my chances on an arranged marriage. Marrying a stranger makes no sense to me....
| By notmyrealname on Monday, May 08, 2000 - 07:22 pm: |
Divya you seem to think that the type of marriage system (arranged, semi-arranged, or love) is more important in the success of a marriage where as I believe it's the 2 people involved that will determine the success. The problems of unwilling to compromise, non-communication, violence against a partner, etc...exist in all forms of marriages be they love or arranged. I never said that I was getting an arranged marriage so I'm not sure why you assumed that I was. I just found your comments concerning that love marriage is better than arranged immature. Good luck in your love marriage but remember if are un-willing to make compromises and have open lines of communication you too will end up like your friends in a 'horrible marriage' and then you will only have yourself to balme and not the system.
So remember all forms of marriage (arranged, love) can be successful or not because it depends on the 2 people involved.
| By Godzilla on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 01:31 am: |
divya,
i beleive u misunderstood my point. I do not support the fact that love marraiges are ridiculed, in fact i am totally against it. My point is the same thing that notmyrealname said. It's the two people getting married, not the type of marraige. And as for your comment on marrying a stranger well, i beleive even u cannot deny that most love these days is blind and quite fantastical. People are often oblivious to their partner's faults or often tend to ignore them. So even in these love marraiges, some people do end up marrying strangers. In addition, take me for example. I am not going ot get marreid to a total stranger. NO WAY! I beleive in the arranged marraige system but also strongly beleive that my destiny is in my own hands. The beauty of the arranged marraige system is that i can have my independence and still abide by my customs.
Please share your opinion with me. Thanks
byeeee
| By Standing on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 02:22 am: |
I think you guys are really glossing over the issue. The problem is that no one is forced into a love marriage---but people are forced into an arranged marriage (even if you are not Godzilla). And believe me, the way you are describing the arranged marriage process is not typical in my experience.
Notmyrealname sounded angry and defensive in response to Divya's first post. I think it's hard for some Indians to accept that many Indians now are REJECTING arranged marriage as part of their culture. Maybe there's a gender issue here as well. Women seem to fare worse because of this system.
(Joseph, thanks for your always insightful responses. If you have any thoughts on how divorce is for women in India these days, it would be greatly appreciated!)
| By Jat on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 03:42 am: |
At least one thing we all agree upon is that it isn't how people get married, it's whom they marry.
Other thing is Divya only people have an arranged marriage are lazy which is completely a stupid statement. I myself have been through all this crap of falling in love. I have also been through meeting a number of women in by arrangement. But, when I found the best woman of all of those, I married her. If I meet someone who meets or exceeds my expectations, why does it really matter how I meet her?
Standing, aren't you the one who is having some kind of relationship with an Indian married guy who is old enough to be your dad? If so, I think you are just trying to justify this to yourself that people are pushed into an arrange marriages because that's what that is using as an excuse to have a relationship with. The thing is that you are helplessly in love with him and you need a way to justify this to yourself and others. But, you are ignoring the fact that there is no excuse at all for a married person to have an extra-marital relationship. You should ask him how he would feel if she had an affair. She was also in the same situation as him.
You say, " And believe me, the way you are describing the arranged marriage process is not typical in my experience. " You actually haven't had any experience with an arranged married. You are saying whatever that guy you are supposedly in love with and you don't realize he is just manipulating you by using his arranged marriage as an excuse.
Godzilla made an excellent point in his post on Tuesday, May 9, 2000 - 03:01 am:. That's what I was trying to express in my earlier post.
| By notmyrealname on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 05:46 pm: |
Standing.....sleeping with some guy thats old enough to be your dad!! Damn you got problems. Do you think that you are secretly in love with your dad and that's why your in such a screwed up relationship??
| By Standing on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 05:58 pm: |
Jat, no, my b/f is not old enough to be my dad...but what does age have to do with anything? Believe me Jat, he would be thrilled if she would have an affair. It would make resolving this horrible situation much easier and less hurtful to her.
What I was reacting (in this thread) to Mastladkhi's feeling that children "owe" it to their parents to submit to an arranged marriage. What's interesting is why you are defensive about admitting that many Indians do not agree with you that point--your last comment where you try to make judgements about me personally is a case in point.
No, obviously, I haven't had an arranged marriage. I've seen them work well when the bride and groom both have made a mature, FREE, decision to go through the process. But I have seen more than one good friend (even before I met my b/f) decide it wasn't for them and watched them suffer through years of fighting with and abuse from their parents. If this experience isn't good enough for you, perhaps you should think about the limits of your own experience in the judgements you are making.
| By Standing on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 06:02 pm: |
Jat, I also wanted to tell you congratulations on your marriage!!
| By Jat on Wednesday, May 10, 2000 - 12:04 am: |
Hi Standing,
Thanks for the congratulations...
I am sorry if it's bothering you but the thing is that you shouldn't be in this relationship at all. This guy is using both of you. He is telling you what he knows you will like to hear in order for you to stay with him which is mainly that he was forced into this marriage. What you fail to realize is that if he was forced into an arranged marriage, so was she. This guy is really bad. Most of the Indian women become dependent their husbands. How can she do something to break up this marriage? That's probably the only reason why she has been tolerant about his extra-marital affair.
This guy wants to leave her not because there is no love. He wants to leave because he is forced by his own intuition. He is just using the arranged marriage as an excuse. I bet if this guy had a non-arranged marriage, he would still cheat if he was given a chance. Your presence and your willingness to have an affair with him only adds fuel to the fire.
Anyway, back to Joseph's comments:
" Now, the reason these parents do not know how to talk to children "their way" is because there is no such way of reasoning to justify arranged marriage concept. If you start discussion with young adult with a reasonable maturity and intelligence, there is no way the argument will go "their way". "
The reason why parents can't have it in "their way" is not because these kids are too intelligent. It's because of their lack of self-respect and shortsightedness. When they are in love ('physically attracted' would be a better term)with someone, they just think about immediate future. They don't even think about what will happen when and if they end up in a divorce. They don't even realize how their kids are going to be treated in Indian society. I have seen at least one girl here on this site saying she get an Indian guy to date her because her dad is an Indian and her mom is American. This is because Indian guys presume she is just like an American girl and most of Indians perceive an American girl as someone who plays around. Now, what kind of person would have a relationship with a married person and what kind of person would marry someone who has had relationship with a married person? Only someone with lack of self-respect. A lot of these kids are not bothered by these kinds of stuff. When their parents try to explain it them, their (kids') only argument is that it won't happen to them and you are telling me they are intelligent. To me, it's only lack of self-respect. It's true a lot of the Indian parents are too busy working and don't spend much time with their kids when they are young. Of course, it's their fault that they don't do enough to raise their kids in "their way". At the same time though, there are a lot of Indian parents like Mastladki's parents who work hard to raise their kids in such a way so that when they grow up, they can go "their way" and there is nothing wrong with that. What bothers me that someone like Lisa, who has no idea how hard people like Mastladki's parents work to raise their kids in "their way", can come here and tell her (Mastladki) that her parents don't know anything. Hey it's your choice how you want to live your life. But, don't try turning other kids against their parents.
Take care folks
Oh, by the way, I am same as Jat Punjabi. I changed my name because some of the people here are hesitant to call me Jat Punjabi and they to me as JP.
| By Standing on Wednesday, May 10, 2000 - 04:07 am: |
Your comments aren't bothering me...you are just wrong on the facts and in your observations.
I give you credit for being honest. It will be interesting to see whether things have changed by the time your children are of marriageable age. Good luck to you
| By Jat on Wednesday, May 10, 2000 - 10:59 pm: |
Well, what can be more wrong than having an affair with a married person, even in this day and age? Maybe in future, it will become a normal behavior. Then, people like you will be considered heroes and people will salute you for your major contribution to then 'Modern Society'.
As far as my children are concerned, I will do anything and everything to keep them in touch with Indian culture even if I have to raise them in my good old village in India. That's what my parents did and I am so glad they did. That's where a lot Indian parents in Western countries lose. They don't do enough to raise their children in "their way" and then they have problems when their kids go in the "other way". I will do my best to raise them in "my way". But if they still decide to go the "other way", I will support their choice as long as they do it without hurting anyone. But, I will never ever accept that they have an affair with someone married.
Also fortunately or unfortunately, more I know, more prejudice I become, even about some people of Indian origin. Thanks to the Internet, I am learning that there are quite a few people who look like us, who speak our native language, who eat the same food as us, and who dress like us, but their only intention is to convert others into their faith even if it takes trapping people into false love. I will never allow my children to marry someone with that belief. You might not know what I am talking about. Maybe you would understand if you watched movie 'Not Without My Daughter'. I think Sally Field plays the main character in this movie.
Take care
| By savraj on Thursday, May 11, 2000 - 05:05 pm: |
JP
great post. I feel very sorry for the wife of the man that standing is involved with. I know of many instances where the wife keeps quite because she does not have any other choice. She spent all her life raising the kids and was a housewife. If she gets out of the marriage she can't support herself. She might be too old without any work experience and skills so nobody will hire her.
Standing don't think your man is an exception. I know of men who had beautiful kids and wives but they chose to have relationships with other women just because they could not control their lust.
| By mastladki on Friday, May 12, 2000 - 01:58 am: |
Hey everyone,
I posted a message a while ago on this page. Didn't come back to check on it though and didn't realize that so many people had opinions about it.
And after I read the comments, I feel the need to justify myself.
A lot of people took the word "owe" and made it seem that cultured Indian children are sold into slavery by their parents. That's not the case.
I agree with the rest of the people in this room. Arranged marraige is not for everyone. Some of you guys out there would crash and burn in one. But for the rest of you guys, who are mature enough to understand what the institution of an arranged marraige means....bravo.
Hardly anyone today can survive in an arranged marraige. I ask one thing, why has arranged marraige lasted so long if it doesn't work? Okay, I'm in debate. And I know the arguments that would counter that statement.
I know that when we look around at our relatives, our aunties and uncles at those long dinner parties...we don't exactly think....wow, a match made in heaven. We think, they probably would get rid of their spouse if they could and still move around in society. But I think I was left in that misconception for a very long time. I know that some people consider arranged marraiges unromantic and boring...but I believe it is so beautiful. To discover this person completely and wholly, to know their nature like your own...
And how can you tell if any of the older generation's arranged marraiges have failed? If your parents or aunties and uncles don't scream at each other every once in a while...THEN their marraige is dead. Because if you fight, it means you care. And Indian people are not exactly big on holding hands, hugging or kissing in public. How do you understand what type of love they share? And how can you believe that hugging and kissing is a sign of love? It happens around us everyday. That must mean that almost everyone enjoys a fruitful and beautiful marraige, right? How can you condemn something you hardly understand?
Now, for all those people who think an arranged marraige is very backwards....I cannot help but slightly feel sorry for you. I ask you again not to denounce something you do not understand. Go ahead and have your love marraiges...hell, I'm not stopping you. And I'm not saying that your marraige will fail if you have a love marraige. I wish you all the joy and happiness your future can possibly contain.
What I'm saying is that so many people condemn arranged marraiges...that others who have not had a chance to make up their minds (arranged or love marraige) will automatically be swayed by a popular belief.
I just want..maybe even one person to understand that arranged marraiges are harder than love marraiges, they bear more weight (family, prestige) than love marraiges....and God knows, maybe they are more fulfilling....but that depends person to person.
And no, arranged marraige is not the lazy person's way of getting shackled to someone.
Or the ugly person's way...
Or the coward's way...
Or the oppressed's way...
Sure, in some parts of this world, arranged marraiges are forced upon kids by their parents. It wasn't forced upon me....I have chosen it for myself.
And even though I am still young and in college, and my views might be a little fresh...I understand what I am getting myself into.
Anyway, the point of this overlong message was just to give a shout out for all those people who are going to choose or have chosen arranged marraiges. You are brave souls who have stepped into the unknown. Hold your partner's hands, tie the kerchief around your eyes and rediscover what it means to love....to need.
I was once asked why I chose an arranged marraige...why go down that path...and what I wanted in my spouse.
I answered this:
Why I have chosen to get an arranged marraige?
Because I know what I want in my man. I know exactly what he should be. It is not just a romantic viewpoint. But I know what I desire in a man. Over the years, I have met many types of guys, and very slowly I have selected that which I wish to have in the man that will be my one true love. It is not the making of a saint, for I am not the making of an angel...part devil actually.
What do I want in my spouse?
Respect. It's hard to come by in this day and age, ladies and gentlemen. Respect for his parents, for me, for himself, for being Indian, for being....When I spoke of "owing" something to your parents, I did not mean that it was a price you had to pay to your parents for taking the trouble of raising you. I did not mean that just because you feel some sort of an obligation towards your parents, that you should sell yourself into a horrible marraige. What I meant, was that everyone who was raised in a good and kind manner, should feel a certain respect for their parents. Look outside your box and see that this whole world has been turned upside down with drugs and violence....appreciate your parents. But don't sell your soul for them. We are all independent and owe something to ourselves...but think just for a moment, how independent are you? Whether you believe it or not, your parents have a right to expect something of you...just like you expect something of your partner in life....with love comes responsibilities and expectations....any fool knows that.
Didnt mean to offend anyone, and if I did, do write back so that I can figure out how.
| By mastladki on Friday, May 12, 2000 - 02:12 am: |
Oh, and Jat Punjabi....I hope your family is as wonderful as mine. They have done a really good job in raising you intact with your Indian values and beliefs.
| By Jat on Friday, May 12, 2000 - 03:38 am: |
Thank you Savraj and Mastladki...good job...
| By Godzilla on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 11:07 am: |
Jat,
Well i kinda agree with u and kinda disagree. First of all you were right that people in love do not see beyond the immediate future. Let me give you my example, there is this guy i know that i have been friends with for the past ten months or so. About three months of aquintance we became best fiends and soon after we confessed to each other that we thought of each other as more than friends. At first the grass was greener and the sky bluer, blah blah! Yes, it was exactly as you mentioned puppy love. But since that time it was not until I was at his house scrubbing his kitchen on my knees that i knew i loved this guy. Or not until i stayed up many nights to help him with his work that i realized that I lived up to my puppy love promises. On the other hand it wasn't until he made me tea four in the morning so that i could get up and study for my exams that he realized what it is like to promise something and actually do it. And these are just the smaller of the examples of what we have been through. My point is that some of us who are in love do know where we are going. I am not against arranged marraige in fact i have always been and still am in favor of it. I am not considering marrying this guy yet, i have another 5-7 years before marraige and i don't know if he will be the same person then. It's often said u get to know the real person only after the first year of the first 10 months, simply because the other person is out to impress you. Neway, tell me what u think of that. I don't beleive loving someone is being unIndian. And yes if i do happen to still be with this guy 5years from now, i would not tie the knot without my parent's approval even if i have to wait five more years for that. Tell me what u think, catch u later
Byee
| By Godzilla on Monday, May 15, 2000 - 11:08 am: |
hey mastladki,
please comment on the above post, i wanna know what u thnk i do about what i owe to my parents
| By Jat Punjabi on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 08:58 pm: |
Hi Godzilla,
I am not against love marriage at all. In fact, I think some of the Indian people make stronger love marriages than they would have made arranged marriages. This is mainly because Indians having love marriages have to go through a lot especially when they are in India and they marry someone of different religion and caste. They are probably worried what their families would think of them if they broke up. The way you described your relationship is almost like being married to the guy except that you never went a religious place or a court to get married.
In my note, I was actually referring to most of Indians who marry non-Indian people. It was to respond to Joseph's comments about people not allowing their kids to marry people of other races and religions due to their own prejudice.
It is true most of the Indians are prejudice. For a lot of them, it comes from what they experienced in their lives. Maybe it's good or bad. It's their right as long as they don't go out there and start hurting people of other race and religion and they don't discriminate at work places.
Maybe in future, Indians will start accepting inter-racial marriage more widely. Right now, they are still very strict about it. I think Inter-religious marriages among Indians are more acceptable than Inter-racial marriages. When I say Inter-racial marriages, I mean marriages among Indian people and non-Indian people, they could be White, Black, Hispanic or other Asian people. So, my point is that these people, who marry out-side Indian community, don't really think about how their future generations will be treated among Indian people. It's different if they don't care about Indian culture and people. But, if you do care about Indian people and society and wanna be a part of them, it's something to think about. Apparently, we all do care about Indian society. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here on this Indian site, right?
Take care
| By Annette on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 08:58 pm: |
Hi everyone,
I am swedish, but my family has another heritage. My grandmothers sister says we inherit from gypsies. I dont know if it is true. When I am reading your debate however it come to my mind that your disscussion sounds like my family. Always they told me that marriage is to bind families together. Like my mum use to say that if two familes have land they should increase the size of the land by marriage. Specially if they live in the same village. My brother have been told to find a girl who either have this or that heritage. When I ask them about love they always says that once everything practical and familywise is settled things will work out. Everytime I met a man and introduced him at home He has been interwied about details about his families buissnes and so on. I feel so embarrased. Here in Sweden it is usually not like this. I am so angry with my family. Give me advise.
| By Anonymous #1 on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 11:11 pm: |
Several weeks ago I started posting here, but then there wasn't much response so I hadn't checked back for a while. Some of you were attacking Standing for some of the things that had actually been in my letters. I am totally and completely in love with an Indian man who is married and is about the same age as my parents. Add to that the religious differences, etc. I know how wrong it is to do what I am doing. And I don't know how I let it happen. He was an acquaintance for about a year and then we were close friends for about another year and then last fall it changed. And I know that the fact that his marriage was arranged (he said he saw her 5 minutes before he married her) gave me the escape to let this happen. I have always been a person that thought only weak evil people thought about their happiness before doing what is right. I have always been so judgemental of other people doing anything inappropriate. This is just killing me. And I started writing here to get some input from people on the chances of anything developing from this. I was dumb enough to believe that he had no relationship with his wife and that she did not care anything about him or what he did. And he made me think that I was the most important thing in the world. He said he fell in love with me the first time he ever saw me and decided he would do whatever it took and however long it took to have me. And of course everyone will say that it was only for sex. Which is crazy because he could have found some one more attractive and some one who would have given in to him much easier and faster than I did, if that was all he was interested in. I keep giving myself deadlines that I have to end it by. But everytime I see him, I can't do it. He has even told me before that I could call his wife and talk to her.
Please help me get up the strength to end this. I have become such a pathetic person, that I even went into some Asian American chat room and now e-mail an Indian guy (single!) because it's like I want to have the closest thing to the real thing that I can. Of course in the beginning he made me think that he would do whatever it took to be with me.
It is just hard for me to understand how a successful business man who has lived here for probably 30 years is still so bound by what is acceptable in his culture. It would be different if he was just trying to do what is right, but it is not right to be doing this.
I know you will all say how terrible I am, which I already know. Believe me, I feel worse about myself than you ever could! But it has helped me a lot talking to Lisa and Standing who know where I am coming from. And I also know that I am only using the arranged marriage thing as an excuse to make myself feel a little less guilty.
Why do things happen like this? Here are two people who aren't in love and maybe never were but just because their parents picked them they are together. And then he and I are crazy about each other and it will never be. I don't think I will ever find anyone like him. They will never be able to live up to him.
For some crazy reason writing here helps.
| By savraj on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 11:48 pm: |
anon#1
Can you tell us more about his wife. What does she do? How old is she? Is she working? Does the man have any children?
| By Desi on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 11:57 pm: |
Dear Anonymous #1
Your Indian man is using you. He is only interested in sex, he is saying all these stories about lack of love between him and his wife is all BS. If is he really interested in you, ask him to leave his wife and marry you. He will panic. He is using your not being Indian to his advantage.
A (reformed) Indian man..
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 12:49 am: |
Hi Anonymous #1,
You want us make you strong to end this relationship. I am not sure what we can do to make you strong. But, think about this. How would you feel if your husband cheated on you and you were helpless? Maybe that will help you get stronger. Sometimes setting up some standards help as well.
Take care and good luck in breaking up.
| By tuff on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 12:50 am: |
Hey annonymous #1 your indian man is just desperate to get laid!
Your so weak and pathetic. I think you should respect his marriage. Do you enjoy being a mistress?? Do you get a kick out of it?? Get your own life.
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 12:56 am: |
Come on guys, she already knows what she is doing is wrong. So, let's not bash her like this. She is asking for help.
| By Hisla on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 04:48 am: |
She must be white. She want to steal the indian mans curry.
| By savraj on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 04:58 pm: |
Anonymous #1
Get to know his wife. When you realize she is a human being with feelings, not some dumb person who does not care is husband cheats, you will want to leave that man. Most likly the wife is helpless. She won't know what to do, or who to depend on if she divorced her husband. This man has been living with her a long time. I think he is playing on you insecurities. Like you thinking you are not beautiful enough etc.
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 05:42 pm: |
YUP YUP YUP...that's exactly what he is doing. She is saying he could have had someone better than her. That's a major sign of lack of self-esteem. That's why she stays stuck to him and he keeps taking advanatge of her.
| By Anonymous #1 on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 10:23 pm: |
To answer some of the questions. I have only met his wife a few times. Even when we were just friends for a few years, she was never with him. I would guess that she is in her late 40s or maybe 50 if she is his age. She is beautiful. I don't think she has ever worked, he is pretty wealthy. Their children are late teens - early 20s I would say. She has called me before to give me a message about meetings or something. He made me believe that there is nothing between them and that he wished there was but she didn't feel that way. He later told me that he is sure she probably thought we were having an affair during the long period of time when we were just friends. As I look back I still can't figure out how I could have let it develope into this. I told him all along we would be nothing but friends, first even if he wasn't married, there is no way I would do anything with some one that I wasn't married to. NOt only do I believe that extramarital sex is wrong, but so is premarital sex.
Desi, what do you mean that he is taking advantage of my not being Indian? I know that it has been harder for me to understand where he is coming from because I think some of it was cultural. But I know I was just using the whole arranged marriage thing as an excuse when I realized how desperately in love with him I am.
Tuff, no I do not enjoy this. I can't sleep at night
and I am in constant terror that God is going to do something terrible to me for being such a bad person.
And each time I think I will be able to end it, then I see him and I can't do it. Or I have some crisis or problem and he is there to get me through it. There have been several things that I don't know how I would have made it without him.
And I know you all think it is foolish, but I truly don't believe he is only interested in sex. First of all he was the same to me for about 2 years when absolutely nothing happened between us. Even simple things when he would ask for a hug or a kiss - I would tell him no way. If he was only interested in sex I don't think he would have still stayed close to me for 2 years with nothing going on. And he treats me so well. He is concerned about every aspect of my life, family, financial things, etc.
I also am not insecure. I would not have any trouble finding some one else. But there is no way I could even think of being interested in some one else. I don't think I could ever find some one who could compare to him. I just meant that wealthy businessmen can find some 25 year old bathing suit model to sleep with, if their only interest is sex.
But that is not how he is.
I really do believe that his wife is satisfied with their "arrangement." And that she does not have any romantic feelings for him. I think as long as he does not divorce her, continues to treat her well, financially takes very good care of her, etc. I don't think she cares. He is never even at home.
And now the thing that bothers me the most is not how devastated I will be to be away from him, but I am worried about him being hurt. He has been so wonderful to me. And I wish that I could be with him, but I also know that he would never be that cruel to his wife (I know you will say he is already cruel to her). But he has said how he has spent his whole life taking care of his family in India and now his family here and he has always put everyone else's needs ahead of himself. He said that he just finally wants some happiness for himself. And he is not the kind of person who would just toss aside his obligations and do what he wants, but he said he will love me for the rest of my life even if I never speak to him or see him, his feelings won't change.
I know that I have to end it, but it is so painful. I have never felt this way about any one before. And I know that since he is Indian I must have some crazy idea that that is what it is so different about him from all the other men I know. I think I said before that I even started chatting on the internet with an Indian guy, just because I missed him so much and it was like I wanted the closest thing to him that I could find.
I hope you are not right that he is just using me and taking advantage of me. He is much older than I am and everyone always tells me how naive I am. I know in the end I will probably be made to look and feel like a fool who fell for him and his line. But he has never given any indication of that. And I don't want to get everyone even more upset with me, but I don't understand how people want to have an arranged marriage. It is hard enough to make something last when you are madly in love with some one. When you marry a stranger you have no idea what will develop.
But I know you will think some one as bad as me shouldn't be commenting on it. I just know that if I had a chance to be with him it would last because of how deeply we feel about each other. And I would do anything for him. It is so hard for me to understand how his wife could not feel the same way, when I would love to be in her position. He has said that he wishes there were something between them, that that would have made him happy and that he has tried to change it. And for all these years he just went on doing what he was supposed to do.
OK, now go ahead and attack me. I know I deserve it, but I started writing here when I was trying to understand the whole arranged marriage thing.
And yes, I am white. What do you mean I want the Indian man's curry?
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 10:33 pm: |
Oh OK, that's what you meant...cool whatever that means...it makes a lot of sense...
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 10:36 pm: |
It doesn't matter what you say...nothing justifies an extra-marital affair...so get away from him....
| By Anonymous#1 on Thursday, May 18, 2000 - 11:47 pm: |
I know that you are right. NOTHING justifies an affair. I am such a deeply religious person that I still can't believe that this has happened. Anyone who knows me would never believe it. I know that he knows what I am trying to do. I keep telling him what a guilty conscience I have. But I don't bring up specific things anymore, because #1 I don't ever want to waste the time I have with him, but #2 he always tells me that I should just call and talk to his wife. Which I could never do. And the worst part is that even when I end it, it will not erase what I have done. Now it will only be compounded by the fact that I will also hurt him by ending it. I hope no else is ever dumb enough to get into this situation. But I have read so many message boards with stories like this.
Am I right that the chances of his divorcing his wife are very small? From what I have read divorced Indian women are looked down on, so I can see that he would never put her in that position.
It would have been better if I had never met him because I cannot see myself ever being happy with some one else, I will always compare them to him and I have never met anyone like him. Just the sound of his voice makes me too weak to end it and if it was in person - FORGET IT. I would give in. But actually I wouldn't be surprised if when I end it he says that he will do whatever I want him to do because he cares that much about me. Oh, what am I going to do. No solution will be a good one. All the options are bad, but I have to try to do what is right, after all this wrong.
| By Jat Punjabi on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 12:07 am: |
Very good...try a little harder....I can't believe you are saying you can't be happy with anyone else...is it first time or something?...never happened before? believe it happens more than once, two,......
| By mastladki on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 02:46 am: |
Dear Godzilla,
Dang..I think I have portrayed myself as some sort of a saint on this forum. Actually, I am not one, but continually strive for it. You wanted me to comment on your post.
First of all, you guys are so cute. Making tea for each other and scrubbing the floor. Most people have the misconception that in the lives of two lovers, a huge test will come which they must overcome. In reality, it is the ordinary everyday things that we all do that show the person we love, just how much we love them.
And really, Godzilla, if you love the man then go and marry him. Really. My reasoning for this is that if you drop him and get an arranged marraige...you will compare your new man to the man you once loved. I said arranged marraige is not for everyone.
The only way you can figure out if you are prepared or will be happy in an arranged marraige is asking yourself a few questions.
1. Is there a man/woman you love that you want to spend the rest of your life with?
2. Are you a strong individual who knows where and when to compromise and when to stand to stand your ground?
3. Do you trust the judgement to your parents to a certain extent? Do they know what your tastes and needs are?
4. Are you truly willing to enter into an arranged marraige, with the mindset that you want to make this work and that you aren't going to throw in the towel at the first difficulty.
5. Are you mature, have the ability to understand that first impressions may cast a person to seem perfect, but on retrospective, they may have some flaws that he/she may need your help in overcoming?
6. Are you prepared to accept him/her in context to his/her job, family, beliefs, opinions...remember that many women enter into a marraige believing that they will change their spouse....but it doesn't happen so often.
7. Are you more or less acquainted to the world? By this I mean...have you gone through some things, fought through some walls, risen to new heights, and dropped to new lows....are you experienced in the games we play in life?
I can't think of anymore. But a person who gets an arranged marraige must have a greater amount of tolerance and acceptance than a person in a love marraige. I know that even love marraiges have to suffer through society's harsh actions, but an arranged marraige is more than just society...it is the hopes and aspirations placed on two young shoulders standing side by side.
Godzilla, I am not condemning you. You seem like a mature person and if you have found the ONE, then pyar kiya to darna kya....go for it...never let go of him. All the best of luck to both of you...if wedding bells do ring, make sure to inform the rest of us on this page....(in 5-6 years).
| By savraj on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 05:10 pm: |
Anonymous#1
Like I have said before you haven't heard the wife's side of the story. You are not in his wife's shoes. I personaly know of one person who was doing the same thing. Even bringing the mistress home but the wife could not do anything about it because her kids were teenagers and she was financialy depended on the husband. The man is now dead (of cancer)the wife feels liberated. Not only that she got a lot of his insurance money. Guess what his mistress was Indian and now she is in her late 30s and nobody will marry her or have anything to do with her because of her horrible reputation.
Everybody makes mistakes in life but God is very forgiving. The best thing to do would be to do what is right.
| By Hisla on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 06:24 pm: |
anonymous #1
please stop your whining and crying. It is getting quite old.
*you say: 'NOt only do I believe that extramarital sex is wrong, but so is premarital sex.'
*I say: 'it's interesting how you don't follow that up with how you believe that hanging around a married man like a groupie is wrong....whoops I forgot you don't think anything is wrong with that.'
*you say: 'I really do believe that his wife is satisfied with their "arrangement." '
*I say: 'If his WIFE is satisfied than why are interfering in the marriage...whoops I forgot you don't respect his wife or his marriage'
*you say: 'I am such a deeply religious person that I still can't believe that this has happened. '
*I say: 'Could you please tell me what religion allows extramarital affairs (are you part of a cult or part of a recognized world religion)?? Why do you call yourself deeply religious...I mean what do you do that makes you think you are very religious?? It's obviously not having any effect on your daily actions and choices. Also I'm sure you can believe it's happening because you have been writing and telling your story forever.
*you say: 'He is never even at home'
*I say: 'Maybe it's because he's with you. If you backed off I'm sure he'd be at home more.'
*you say: 'What do you mean I want the Indian man's curry?'
*I say: 'Don't lie..you have already put it in your mouth'.
Lastly I would like to state for the record that I think:
1) you have a lack of morals...I'll blame your parents
2) you are a weak and dependant person who cannot make decisions on your own
3) you are very much enjoying being the other lady...it gives you a rush
4) I do believe that you have substance abuse problem (my guess is crystal meth)
5) your perversion (sexual addiction) may relate to trauma suffered earlier in your life (sexuall abuse)
6) your mother probably cheated on your father. Your father was a weak man.
7) you are a whore
8) you are suicidal
9) you grew up in trailor park and have developed a taste for Busch Beer
10)you were previously married but due to your lack of maturity the mariage was a faliure and now everytime you see a happily married couple you fill with rage and anger and scheme to destroy the marriage because you want others to suffer the way you have suffered.
Those are just my opinions based on the American Psychiatric Guidelines. Work through my ten statements and get help for each one. Now some solutions may require a stay in the hospitial but if you call your local mental health department they can arrange something for you. Or you can ask the guy you are having an affair with to commit you into a hospital. If he really cares about he help you get the help you need. Don't loose hope, although your life is not worth living, you can get through this with psychiatric help. Thank-you for letting me help you. Please keep us informed on how your doing with with my ten point list and how your progress is coming. Remember the first part of any treatment is to acknowledge the problem. Posting a message denying that you have a problem or that my ten points are not correct will not help you.
| By savraj on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 06:56 pm: |
Anonymous#1
If this man really cares about you and he is 30 years older than you then he should let you go. You are his childern's age for crying out loud. Why should you worry about hurting him? Hasn't he hurt you terribly already by confessing his feeling to you and traping you in this sitution. He will never divorce his wife. He is selfisly puting himself ahead of everyone else. If he loves you he would let you get out of this unhappy situation.
| By Roxie on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 09:55 pm: |
Anon, I've been reading your story for the past week now and let me tell you something, You need to GET REAL!!! Personally, I really do not care what your situation is, who is doing what, who is wrong or who is right because people need to stop blaming everything else but themselves and to stop listening to psychology babble because all it mostly do is make excuses for everyone and their behavior. All I know is that you really dont get it. When I read on about your story, it becomes so clear to me about what you should do. However I am no position to tell you what to do, all I can do is give you the 10 laws of life that somehow people forget to learn or choose to ignore. Really, all it is are common sense rules to life, however, it is easier said then done. But once you understand, and apply the knowledge, it will change you way of thinking and your life.
1) You either get it or you dont.
Become one of those that gets it.
2) You create your own experience.
Acknowledge and accept accountability for your life.
3) People do what works.
Identify the payoffs that drive your behavior and that of others
4) You cannot change what you dont acknowledge.
Get real with yourself about life and everybody in it.
5) Life rewards action.
Make careful decisions and then pull the trigger.
6) There is no reality, only perception.
Identify the filters through which you view the world
7) Life is managed; it is not cured.
Learn to take charge of your life
8) We teach people how to treat us.
Own, rather than complain about how people treat you.
9) There is power in forgiveness.
Open your eyes to what angers and resentment are doing to you.
10) You have to name it before you claim it.
Get clear about what you want and take your turn.
Roxie
| By Joseph on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 01:52 am: |
Hi Standing,
Sorry for the delay in my response to your question.
I can't make generalization based on one experience I know for the entire Indian women's population, but I can safely say that issues of divorce are not as uncommon as it used to be, because women have more freedom to be independent (specially in urban areas) and society's view towards a divorcee is changing fast.
A childhood friend of mine was married after she finished her studies, to a person her parents had chosen. Two years later, things did not work out and she decided to divorce him, yes, it was her decision. This was in mid 80's. When I spoke to her in 95, she is married again, this time with her own choice and terms, and has two children. This her husband's first marriage.
This is what she had to say when I ask her about how her family and community had reacted to her divorce. She had solid support from parents and did not really care about community. After divorce she was devastated and re-marriage was not even a consideration. In between, she went back to school. Ten years later, she met her husband and decided to marry. So I think there are people like her husband who do not think of divorce as a stigma and there are women like her who consider happiness of marriage over duty to society and family.
Hi Jat,
As always, I respect your views. And the fact that difference of opinions validates the fact that what we all are discussing about obstacles with inter-racial marriages are real. And you know, it is not just Indian parents who behave (either covert reasons or fear) such. We always tend to forget that for each Indian parent in this situation, there is a parent of opposite race, who, most likely, may behave the same way. There are children disowned by parents of all race and colors.
| By mastladki on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 02:04 am: |
Dear anon,
First of all, ease up roxie. Second, listen to your conscience anon. I know that you think you will never find another man like him, but you will. Life works in strange ways, testing us for things that are to come. Right now you sound as if you cannot cope with living alone, by yourself unto yourself. Being completely independent and self-reliant. But maybe that is what this experience is supposed to teach you. Maybe only if you become the best that you can be, can you find a man who has achieved the same. You know this relationship has no future, so you must slowly (I'm not saying cold turkey), begin to detach yourself. It will be hard...it will be more than hell....but if you start today, little by little, you're gonna crawl to the finish line.
I can't give you gurantees or promises, but mabe in your future there is that man that you are meant to be with. Excuse my romantic viewpoints...what I mean is that maybe you will find a relationship that will satisfy all parts of you. Even your conscience. And you know this relationship doesn't do that.
I'm not going to condemn you for what you have done. I know what you meant by doing it. Truly, you are not breaking up a marraige, just kicking around the rubble. But everyone needs a chance. Perhaps, that wife of his does love him, but hides it well. I've seen it happen before. Give her a chance too. By your decision, exactly four people are going to be hepled.
1. The wayward husband...perhaps he may move on to some other woman...or maybe he will think about what his life has been till now and make some changes....bring some loyalty into himself.
2. His wife....who knows what she's like? Maybe she had deep regrets about the marraige....maybe she looks at other happy marraige couples and aches...maybe she wishes to share herself with someone who understands....god knows....
3. Yourself now. Hey, you have to understand this...you are beating upon a door that aint gonna open. Might as well stop beating and getting your hand hurt.
4. The future you. Hey you, owe it to yourself to be the best that you can be. That person that you are going to become is going to be someone that has the characteristics you wish you had now...give it to her. Only when you can combat yourself can you truly simmer and dissolve in this boiling pot we call love...and not just love of another man, but also of yourself. Respect yourself and get out of this degrading relationship.
That's is all I can say. And hey, on this page, we can all say a lot. But it is up to you to make the difference. Just remember, we all get problems in our lives...and it is not what we say or do or think that makes us who we are...it's how we deal with these problems...that's what makes you who you are. In life, there are three types of person....The Coward (runs away, weakling) The Blind (ignores their problems, disillusioned) and The Bold (faces their problems, successful).
I think I have given you enough hints on which one you should be. Good luck and God bless you.
| By Indian on Sunday, May 21, 2000 - 04:23 am: |
Back off Hisla. I think you are being unfair to her.You have no right to judge her without knowing anything about her
| By Standing on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 02:54 am: |
Joseph, thank you. I defintely won't take your comments as being generally applicable...it's just difficult to get feedback on this topic, and I always find you to be wise and insightful.
Anon#1, you sound so troubled. It would probably help alot if you were not working with him or around him every day. Good luck working everything out.
| By Canadian Gentleman on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 08:19 am: |
Hello Everyone
I just thought I'd share my views on the subject of marriage and the Indian family. I am a Canadian of Irish descent, from a Catholic family of liberal views. About 3 years ago I met an immigrant Indian girl (a Catholic girl from Bandra in Mumbai) in my workplace and we became friends, and later a little more than friends. Since I have travelled extensively in India, I understood the "boundaries" of modesty and propriety that are expected in the Indian culture, and I respected those boundaries (I think I am clear).
I and the girl in question got on extremely well. We were opposites, but in a complimentary way. We began to talk about marriage, and yes, we were in love with each other.
So I told my father (my mother is deceased) and my sister about our plans. My family was in total agreement with my choice. They were enchanted by the girl. She was determined to make a home, with children and parents living with us, and this appeals to the Irish, since we are traditional in that the parents live with the son's family (how ever liberal we may be!).
But then she told her parents. Things went badly wrong. Her father was adamant in that his daughter would only marry an Indian boy (of his choice), and would rather die than see things turn out otherwise. I don't want to go into detail, but he made things so difficult for my family and my putative fiancee that it just fell apart. We tried and tried for two years, but her father's determination would not abate. The result: two people who loved and respected each other had to admit defeat.
Take my word for it, and "stick to your own kind". There are barriers that even love can't transgress. I still love the girl, and I still love the Indian culture, in spite of everything.
What makes me really angry is the fact that my (white) family, who conventionally would have been the ones to reject a non-white addition to the family, were the more open-minded. It was the Indian side that made trouble. Racism of an ugly kind is not confined to white people.
| By Jat Punjabi on Monday, May 22, 2000 - 07:40 pm: |
Some of the white people think they are better because they think white skin is better. Indians think they are better because of their of cultural values.
It is interesting though a Christian wouldn't allow his children to marry another Christian. So I guess people give more priority to their cultural values than to religious beliefs.
It would make sense among Hindus and Sikhs due to the caste system.
Yes sir Mr. Joseph, in case you never noticed, I certainly do have a lot of respects for your views as well.
| By Hisla on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 06:14 pm: |
Hey Indian you back off! Her crystal meth problem is not a joke. Say no to drugs.
| By CanadianIndianGirl on Saturday, May 27, 2000 - 05:48 am: |
For the 'Canadian Gentleman(irish)', I feel very sorry for your predicament. I am a Canadian Indian Catholic girl(ironically from Bandra too) and have some wonderful white Canadian guy friends.
What you say is true..racism exists in all cultures and Indians are no exception!. However I do feel your girlfriend could have been more assertive and been adamant about marrying you. In time, her parents would have understood and learnt to welcome you into their family.
I believe her family to be very narrow-minded if their only opposition to your marriage, was the fact that you were of a different culture. There are other Indians(irrespective of religion) who think they are "superior" than people from the West. Yet these same people believe in 'dowry' and other similar 'hypocritical,inferior and inhuman' behaviour. However this 'narrow-mindedness' cannot be generalised.
Generally at what age do white canadian men think of pursuing a serious relationship(serious refers to marriage being the goal)? I believe in the 'boundaries' as you described it because of my Catholic faith and personal principles primarily, rather than my culture.
Another thing I've wondered about is the age gap factor? Does it matter if the guy is younger than the girl? Another thing that is assumed here is the maturity level of the guy(this varies from person to person).
| By Canadian Gentleman on Sunday, May 28, 2000 - 03:35 am: |
Hello CanadianIndianGirl
I hope I haven't given the wrong impression. I don't think that Indians are any more racist than other people. If you have lived in Canada a few years, you must have encountered how nasty some white people can be to non-white people. And I may be angry, but I'm not bitter. Indian people are good people; I was just unlucky in falling in love with a girl with an extremely conservative father. It could have been the other way around. Maybe it's healthy for white people to feel what it's like to be rejected for what we are; heaven knows that white people do it often enough.
Anyway, I'd like to respond to your questions is I can. Generally (but not exclusively) white Canadian men are not really ready for marriage until around the late 20's, sometimes later. But you may or may not have noticed that there is more than one variety of white Caanadian male. If the family is religious, the man is usually ready earlier. If not, he may wait until his late 30's. And it also depends on what "nationality" the man is. Polish or Irish or Italian men usually have their "eyes open" for a wife as soon as they leave home (these are cultures where people can't imagine a home without lots of relatives around). English or Scottish or German men can be quite different (so can women).
As far as the age gap (girl older) this is rarely, if ever, a serious problem. It can raise a few eyebrows, but usually the family will give in if the couple are even a little bit persistent. The Canadian culture is different from the Indian culture in that, once the children are old enough to think for themselves, any quarrel between "children" (even grown-up ones) and parents usually ends in the parents capitulating and accepting things. As far as the man himself, and whether it's a problem for him, that's up to him. It's certainly not taboo, or even unusual. My grandfather was seven years younger than my grandmother, and they had a very happy marriage.
(On a side note: if the man is traditional Irish, the woman has to be prepared to "fight her way in" to the family. Irish males are mother-worshipping, as they are spoilt from the moment they are born - by both sisters and mother - and the women of the family will resist any woman who tries to marry "their" male relative. But once "in" the family, you are 100% in. If the girl puts her foot down and says "I'm going to marry so-and-so and you'd just better accept it!", the girl will get enormous respect. Irish women like other women who take charge! Sound familiar? :)
Again, I feel a bit bad about my post last week. Indians, Chinese, Italians, Arabs, Russians; if you ask me, immigrants are all welcome in Canada. Canada is a huge country, and there's room enough for all of us.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
Good Luck!
| By dylan on Saturday, June 03, 2000 - 02:03 am: |
hi.
i'm an indian guy from california.
i'll be going to india to meet a girl and probably
marry her. i'm the first of my indian friends to go this way. they have married indian girls from the us
and are doing horrible. some have divorced and the others are horrible. according to them, most of the indian american girls are stuck up, disrespectful etc...so i guess i'll go do it this way.
anyways, i've got some questions. how will this work.
my parents said i'll get to talk to her for a bit.
but i'm going to be there for only 3 weeks.
so everything will be rushed.
will her parents let me speak with her alone?
also my parents already told me not to ask certain questions, such as "do you date/ have you/ do you have a boyfriend? etc..". i want to but they said
this will be disrespectful and cause the marriage
to fall thur. my parents have met this girl and her family a couple months ago and really like her.
i feel like that i can't ask here hardly anything
becuase my parents are saying you can't ask this and that. my dad told me to ask him all the questions i'm going to ask her, so he can ok the questions before i can ask her. that is complete bs in my opinion.
what do you guys think about that? also, i'd like to ask her a bunch of questions but should I?
also i'm sure lots of people lie. if she does date, and i ask her and she says no..i have no way of knowing the truth. then should i lie when she asks
me questions. i'm just really confused /scared
about the whole thing. i've only been to india once
when i was 6. i hated it. i'm now 26. also i heard that you shouldn't drink any water there. also that some of the indians fill bottle water from the river and seal it and sell it as evian water..etc...
any advice on all this will be greatly appreicated.
thanks
"dylan"
| By Heartbroken on Saturday, June 03, 2000 - 05:00 am: |
Hello Dylan....
The water issue is simple...
Buy from a chemist andd make sure the water is sealed.
yes there are a lot of people that refill bottles but they can't seal them.
So check before buying the bottles.
I was ther about 9 months ago and bought water from a chemist- i was ok.
Also if you are suspicious then you can always boil the water and stick it in the fridge till you find a good water source.
It may be also an idea to eat yogurt with black peppers in it - keeps the stomach good...
***********
Regarding marrige.
Ask what you must. be honest and clearify any bad habits you have also.. ie smoking drinking with the lads etc. eating meat etc.
Ask if it is a problem etc.
don't worry about your parients but be WARNED by me
all girls are looking to get out of india and will marry you. so be sure you have checked the family out to.
Lastly ask the girl if she knows what marrige is about... being extremly sincere here..
I have been married almost a year to a girl from INdia and believe me its Hell!!!
And it hasn't all been my fault...
i wish it had so at least i could blame myself for the failing marriage....
Sorry i am being negative. ask your question freely and i hope you all the success.
Best Regards
Heartbroken
| By dylan on Saturday, June 03, 2000 - 10:45 am: |
heartbroken
fill me in w/ the details. so are you from the us?
you went to india to get married. how come your
marriage is hell? was the girl you married educated etc..the girl i'm supposed to meet is a medical doctor. also was there any thing wrong w/ her family that you knew about. according to my parents, the family is from a military background and very polite. etc...any info would be greatly appreciated.
what are the things causing your marriage to be so bad. is it just your wife, or do you think this is the case for most women from india
thanks
dylan
| By anonymous#? on Saturday, June 03, 2000 - 10:21 pm: |
dylan you are really inexperienced in life. Please grow up and date a couple of girls before you get into a marriage. Grow up man. You're a baby. Ask anything you want. It's your future no one elses. Take responsibility for your life. My God, people take more time to buy a pair of shoes then they do to find a so called life partner. How can you know anyone in three weeks. Especially if there is a restriction on what you can talk about. What if she is madly in love with someone and has to give him up to be with you and move to another country. God youre dumb.
| By dylan on Monday, June 05, 2000 - 07:34 am: |
hey anonymous.
i'm not inexperienced. i've dated plenty of girls.
a lot more than you have. i just don't have
any ••••••• experience with indian women.
i have dated only white girls.
and i have no experience with this arranged
stuff in india. that is why i'm asking the questions idiot. so f yourself.
| By nobody of importance on Monday, June 05, 2000 - 10:02 am: |
Hello Dylan.
I'm not Indian, but I think I can sympathize with your plight. You're up against a monumental choice:
Art thee Indian, or art thee American.
This is the agonized choice every immigrant/2nd generationer must make. Always remember one thing: your life is yours, and no one else's.
Follow your heart.
All the Best.
| By ask away on Monday, June 05, 2000 - 09:46 pm: |
Dylan my man,
I never wanted an Indian girl. I only wanted an Indian American girl. But i ended up with a girl who has been in the US for 3 years. She was from India. We only talked for half an hour and the next thing I know is that we are getting married. I believe my decision was only based on physical appearance. I didn't ask her nor did she ask me much/ But I wish i had. The point is ask her anything you want to! Because if you don't ask now things will pop up in the future that you will be un-prepared for. And I mean some fucked up things. we're not divirced or anything but we seem to be discussing things that should have been discussed before marriage.
| By none on Friday, June 09, 2000 - 12:40 pm: |
Hey you girl asking for help with falling in love with this older Indian man, trust me " NO GOOD". In simple words. I've been,there done that. Indian men (Not all) want to be with a white girl. And any man would want a younger girl. You're too naive to realize this. YOU ARE THE DEER, HE'S THE LION..Get it!! If you just wanna let him use you for sex, then that's your choice, but don't ask for help. Because what you need is to face the truth, you don't need anyone's help in that. At least don't act ignorant and you need to have a talk with YOURSELF. I may have used hard words, but they're ture...Someone who cares!
| By CanadianIndianGirl on Sunday, June 11, 2000 - 02:09 am: |
Hello Canadian Gentleman(irish),
Thanks for your nice message. I found it interesting and beneficial.
I found that I have intergrated well into Canadian society thanks to a movement called the Focolare. I knew it back home and made it a point to contact them here. It is an excellent movement especially for young people as it really helps us and teaches us to lead good lives. I have made so many good friends as a result.
It started in Italy during the World War when some women tried to help those around them sometimes giving all their food and help to those in need. People around them were amazed at their compassion and wanted to live like them. Focolare is an Italian word meaning 'Fireplace' around which the family gathers. People felt they were in a family/at home with the people of the focolare so the name stuck. And by sheer example it has spread to 187 countries of the world and has millions living this way of life including Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Buddists, Protestants, Catholics. Their website is www.focolare.org
They really have the charism that is needed today:living with the intent of building unity.
In fact their foundress got the 1997 UNESCO award for peace.
Another question: I often encounter young people whose parents are divorced. I feel tremendous sympathy for them and often don't know how to empathise with them or totally avoid this topic.
What do you think?
| By apnee wit da shaft on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 11:20 am: |
hi
i don't know if this has anything to do with this actual topic but i recently something has happened to me and it hurts me just thinkin about it. I guess it does have something to do with love marriages vs arranged ones; if it didn't then i wouldn't be in this position. I have met the most wonderful guy ever. You have to understand that i believe that fate brought us together because he just walked into my life and i waz totally caught off guard. KUCH KUCH HOTA HAI. I wasn't lookin for anyone at the time and i waz actually suppossed to hook up with someone else. He makes me smile, laugh, shares my every joy and pain. He takes care of me and pleads with me to go to sleep when we stay up late talkin all nite but yet he will never let me go. I love him and he loves me. ONLY one problem, he's jutt and i'm rajput. We're two different castes and we don't know how our parents will react to it. I have a feeling my parents will be somewhat more understanding than his parents but there's the thin line that i don't want him to cross. I love him so much that i can't put him in that position. One day, we talked about it and it felt like it ended, and i cried. It hurt so much cuz i know that whatever happens i will always love him and i will never forget him. i thank god the day he came into my life. he is truly my angel and to let him go will be the hardest thing I will ever do. We're taking one day at a time and it's all good until the day comes....i totally believe in love marriages, i just hope that we can surpass the one obstacle that is in our way which makes the days we spend together become more and more cherished. I despise this caste system cuz i know that if we can't be then my next will be rajput just to save myself the pain with dealing with it again. Thank-you for putting up with all this extra space but it makes me feel a lot better just writing about it. dil mai rehta hai....homesha.
| By Jat Punjabi on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 07:54 pm: |
apnee wit da shaft (what does it mean by the way?),
I don't think you are going to have too much of a problem with his parents. I might be wrong but I think jatts consider themselves closer to rajputs than any other caste. GOOD LUCK........
Kuchh to loag kahen ge....
loagon kaa kaam hai kahna....
chhodho bekaar ki baaton mein...
kahin beet na jaaye raina....
Hum ko wo taahne dete hain....
hum khoye hain in rang raliyon mein...
Unko hum ne vi chhup chhup kar...
Aate dekha inn galiyon mein...
ye sach hai...
Jhuthi baat nehi...
Tum bolo ye sach hai naa...
| By apnee wit da shaft on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 10:28 am: |
heyyyyy jat punjabi,
apnee wit da shaft means someone that for some reason always gets things thrown in her face even when she doesn't deserve it. harsh huh... i want to thank you for wishing me good luck but ur too late. it's over, everything happens for a reason....god's way of showing me that life isn't fair. i'll never forget him...it hurts, why lie? i can pretend but what's the point. wow, life can be so cruel, i so didn't deserve this...funny last line in your message in the song is exactly what we used to say...hai na bolo... par sanjan ji dhor jalagay.damn....
| By Jat Punjabi on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 05:17 pm: |
apnee wit da shaft,
I am so sorry to hear this. So, what caused the break up?
chitthia ho to har koi baante...
Bhaag na baante koye....
Karamava vairy hoye hamaar...
Sajanava vairy hoye hamaar...
| By Jat Punjabi on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 05:19 pm: |
And maybe you say "Tu nehi to koi aur sehi...aur nehi to koi aur sehi..." just kidding
Yes of course, things happen for reason. The thing is that do they always happen for a good reason?
| By anamika on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 06:22 am: |
Hi Everyone,
How r u all? I would like to know about how arrange marriage is perfomed? I'm staying in this country from quite a long time. Would anyone help me, or tell me from where i can find more information about arrange marriage.
| By Canadian Gentleman on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 08:58 am: |
Hello CanadianIndianGirl
Focolare, eh? I can't honestly say that I've heard of them, but I like what you've said about them. One of the things that attracted me to India and Indian culture in the first place is the profound respect that all Indians, of whatever faith, have for grassroots movements aimed at improving the world, even if in only a small and unassuming manner (this is not to say that Focolare is insignificant; far from it). I'll visit the website.
I must confess to a certain affinity for the Italians. If you have ever visited Italy, you will find that they are the friendliest, most gracious and welcoming people to be found in Europe. They have a gift that is unique in today's world: they are totally traditional yet open to whatever changes the world may undergo. The Irish and Italians don't get on well in the New World, but I think that's because we're so similar! :-)
Divorce? In all honesty, I wouldn't know. My parents had a very happy marriage, and my father has not remarried, even though my mother has been deceased for twelve years. I guess he's set in his ways. But for myself, I will admit that divorce is very common among white Canadians. I'm not sure what I think about this. I believe that a couple should go to the utmost lengths to work things out, and I do think that some people divorce too readily. But if a woman is married to a chronically abusive or neglectful husband, there may be no other way.
As far as talking about it, I wouldn't worry. White Canadians are quite open about problems in their families, as compared to Indian people. We don't have the same fear of people "knowing too much" about us as Indian people do (I'm not trying to say that Indian people are duplicitous or secretive about themselves; an Indian's reputation can mean the difference between a promotion or a lost job opportunity; and an Indian's "good name" is something s/he takes pride in). Very few subjects are taboo to us, and if you feel sympathy for someone who ended up with only one parent as a result of a divorce, that's something people will appreciate. I myself grew up in a home with both parents to guide me, and I too feel sympathy for people who grew up without this.
I hope this is helpful
| By Godovic on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 09:56 pm: |
Hmm, I am 19 and i am in luv with Indian girl. The problem is ,that I am European. Any advices? U can mail me on godovic@yahoo.com. Thanks...
| By sheela on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 05:52 pm: |
hello!
i'm sheela.
doing a research paper on arranged marriages.
my hypothesis:
arranged marriages amongst indians last longer than love marriages.
do not mean to upset anyone.this is just the stand i'm making.
wuld gladly appreciate ur views.
thank u.
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 11:28 pm: |
Sheela,
I'm not sure why you think you would upset people...unless you think "last longer" means "are happier".
Also, what is meant by "last". Since actual divorce is problematic in India, do you think you'll be able to make a meaningful comparison? Is a marriage lasting if it remains only for outward appearances?
| By Canadian Gentleman on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 06:23 am: |
Hi Godovic!
Since you posted your request for advice on the net, you must expect that people might tell you things you don't want to hear. Well, here it comes...
If you are in love with an Indian girl, prepare for heartbreak. Indian people are warm, outgoing, friendly, expansive, educated and intelligent. They have a remarkable ability to laugh at themselves and are a joy to know.
But don't get too close. The "signs" that a European may get from an Indian family are easily misinterpreted. Remember meeting your first girlfriend's parents? In most white families, you are subjected to endless questions, probes, and interrogations from her mother. But she is usually warm and polite, just checking you out to see if you're on the level, and not about to "love and leave" her daughter. On the other hand, your girlfriend's dad probably tried to be nice, but the anger and hostility at some young punk (you may have been an A-student from a great family, but to him you're still a "punk") dating his daughter was very obviously more than he could live with, even though he knew there's nothing he can do about it. Men are men the world over, and nobody is ever good enough for "daddy's little girl".
And, as you well know, the roles are reversed if you bring your girlfriend home to meet your parents. Your dad is proud that his son is doing the "manly" thing, while your mom and sisters pick your girlfriend to pieces. She's never good enough for you (in their eyes).
These are the rules you and I live by. It's always awkward, but in the end the wishes of the couple are respected.
But in the Indian family, this is not the case. You may know them for years, become fast friends and you may even become a confidant. But try to become part of the family and they'll as likely as not slam the door in your face.
I hope things don't turn out this way for you, I really do. But Indians and white people have a lot in common, yet on the core principles we're worlds apart.
My advice? Do your homework before becoming emotionally committed. FORCE her to discuss it with her parents, even if you have to be nasty about it. If you get a definite "NO" vibe from her family, forget it. Ain't going to happen.
I hope I haven't depressed you, but believe me I know what I'm talking about.
| By sheela on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 07:12 pm: |
Anonymous,
thanks for the comments.made me realise that i had not really explained the situation.
guess u can say "last" means sticking it out. i'm not from india.and divorce rates the world over is rising. so i'm just doing this research to see which makes "lasting" marriages.Partners we find ourselves or parterners that were found for us?
sheela
| By dimple on Thursday, July 27, 2000 - 08:12 pm: |
Hi,
I will be getting married soon in an semi aranged manner. We have been seeing each other about 4 times a month with our famalies blessing and talk almost everday on the phone. The one thing that bugs me is that she tells me how other guys are trying to pick her up. I don't think that she would follow through but I just asked her not to tell me. But she seems to sneak a story in once a while.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 09, 2000 - 09:46 pm: |
Love anyone you choose...it's your life and the only one you are going to get so wise up!
| By DD on Monday, August 07, 2000 - 10:30 pm: |
Hello all,
I just happened to come across this message boeard while browsing. It sure is a great thing. Helps people to exchange views and experiences.
While I would agree to the fact that Indian parents are usually conservative when it comes to marriage matters, the fact is that there is a changing trend.
These days, many parents I have seen, do accept this decisions, even if it's not something that they would like or expect.
Regarding the failure of these marraiges, I would say that the main reasons lay with the partners themselves, we cannot blame anybody else more than them!
I might be wrong, but this is what I have seen and expereinced!
Do comment!
| By wishful thinker on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 05:58 am: |
Hi to all out there. I'm in a bit of a difficult situation at the moment and I am in desperate need of advice. I will try to be as brief as possible but I tnd to drag on a bit so bear with me. Here goes. I was born and raised in Australia, but both my parents are Punjabi Indians (father is deceased). I went to India for the first time four years ago when I was 17 and fell in love with a guy there. We wrote to each other for about a year then I stopped writing. Why? We're both from the same village, and as alot of you Punjabis out there know any sort of romantic relationship between two people from the same village is forbidden. I was not aware of this when I got involved with this guy. But when I realized that nothing would eventuate from the relationship I deceided it was best that I end all communication with him. Although this was very painful for me I thought it was for the best. I forced myself to forget about him. Ithought I would never see him again. Anyway, I went back to India just recently and I met up with this guy again. I was expecting him to be married by now, but he was still single. Fate brought us back together again and we are now very much in love. For the past seven months we have been communicating by phone (big phonebills) and are planning to get married, but the thing about us both being from the same village is standing in our way. We are both determined to marry because we are so in love, but we don't know how the hell we're going to do it. Our parents and relatives will not agree to it. They all care too much about what people will think- personally I couldn't care less. I do not want to hurt my mother though. She wants me to have an arranged marriage, and is a strong advocate of the concept that I owe it to her. I support arranged marriages, but what happens if you fall in love before you have an arranged marriage. If I hadn't fallen in love with this guy I would probably have had an arranged marriage- which I would've been fine with. But now I'm in love and whole-heartedly commited to my honey, who is also strongly commited to our relationship. What to do???
| By Caroline on Tuesday, August 15, 2000 - 07:13 pm: |
New UK Travel Programme
I am a researcher on a new travel programme for Channel 4 in the UK. I am looking to find UK based people who are travelling to India in order to get married. I would be particularly interested in hearing from anybody embarking upon an arranged marriage. If you are interested in sharing your expectations and experiences please e-mail me at caroline@realholiday.com
| By Citizen of the World on Sunday, September 03, 2000 - 05:44 am: |
Times of India (09-03-00)
Arranged Marriages Bounce Back
Malvika Kaul tracks the return of the trend
USHIL MASLEKAR is a young, modern Indian man barely 30, jetsetting software expert with a mind of his own. A year ago when he decided to marry, his parents selected Kanchan, a freelance journalist, who cried bitterly before considering a 'stranger' as a suitor. Sushil did not really bother to know what Kanchan wanted in a marriage. Instead, he listed his demands which included putting up with his long working hours, readiness to stay with his parents and willingness to bring home a salary. Kanchan agreed.
Are they happy today? They say yes.
Sociologists like Renuka Singh, associate professor at the Jawaharlal Nehru University, are not surprised. More and more modern Indians today are opting for traditional, arranged marriages where parents guide and even decide who they should settle for. If the 70s and 80s saw an explosion of love marriages by young Indians, in the new millennium, the trend has reversed. ''Arranged marriages are making a comeback now,'' says Singh.
As young India getting more conservative? Apparently, the Net savvy, brand-peppered generation has no difficulty in slipping into the traditional module when it comes to marriage. A countrywide survey, Attitude and Perceptions of Educated, Urban Youth to Marriage And Sex, conducted by the Family Planning Association of India in the 90s, claimed that almost 60 per cent of Indian urban youth (15-29) settle for arranged marriages. Almost 75 per cent youngsters (educated and modern), sampled not only from cities like Rajkot, Patna, Shimoga, Thiruvananthapuram, Jabalpur but also New Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore, wanted inter-caste or inter-religious marriages. Respect for their parents' wishes and social approval (25 per cent), belief that arranged marriages were more successful (20 per cent) and the security that in case of failure the blame would shift to parents (15 per cent), were some reasons given for arranged marriages.
But for many, marriage continues to be simply following your parents' footsteps. Filmstar Chandrachur Singh was always clear that he would marry someone his parents chose. His parents chose the lovely Avantika. ''My parents' marriage was an arranged one. I have seen how successful it was. I know its merits.''
For Vinnie Mehta, Director, Manufacturers' Association of Information Technology (MAIT), New Delhi, the decision came naturally. ''My family has a lot of mixed marriages. But I never really had anybody with whom I could settle down. My studies, and later my work left me with no time.'' Mehta's family put an ad in the newspaper. When Vinnie's sister suggested he meet one of the respondents, Parnika, a market researcher, he agreed. ''I was looking for a level-headed girl who understood my work. The families too liked each other. Besides, we share the same deity. A common cultural identity is a pretty good start to have.''
Purnima Divgi, 24, a software engineer from Pune, did not think marriage was an independent decision. In fact, when her husband Sachin (a marketing professional chosen by her parents), first came to their house and asked her out for a more informal introduction, she preferred to stay home and talk to him with 15 other relatives hanging around. Her only concern was whether Sachin was a vegetarian. Priyadarshini Mahesh, a garment designer in Chennai, says arranged marriages have more in-built safety valves. ''More heads are involved in the decision. Parents and relatives are there, horoscopes are matched and the family history is assessed.''
Two decades ago, marriages were not just modern expressions of individual tastes or choices but also a form of rebellion against the caste-ridden, conservative system. Today rebels appear like willing conformists. ''I don't think the younger generation is getting conservative. It is getting more cautious about marriages. They are looking for security and longevity more than mutual compatibility or romance,'' says Renuka Singh. She believes the increasing breakdown of marriages is partly responsible for this reversal of trend. ''You want in your marriage what you have missed in your childhood. Many youngsters today come from unstable homes. These children don't want to follow that pattern,'' feels Singh. Already, she says, parents who themselves have had love marriages want their children to go in for arranged marriages.
Vinay Singh, a divorce advocate in New Delhi, observes the divorce rate in love marriages is perceptibly higher. ''The people who are divorcing are very young and disillusioned.'' A city like Chennai, which saw a rash of love marriages two decades ago, has one of highest divorce applications today. Sudha Ramalingam, senior advocate in the city, says most of these applications are from couples who had love marriages. ''People marry without any conviction. Recently, a couple who had exchanged letters written in blood came for a divorce. The girl claimed her husband had kidnapped her.''
hile examining why some young Indians chose love marriages to arranged ones, the Family Planning survey said the former gave couples a better opportunity to get to know each other.
But many youngsters don't think the Indian society really gives them this chance. Most dating in India is clandestine. Families have curfew hours for girls. There is no social freedom to mingle with the
pposite sex.
In contrast, arranged marriages have become more accommodating. ''Parents are more flexible and don't burden their children with their choices,'' says Jitendra Nagpal, a New Delhi psychiatrist. The bottomline, in both arranged and love marriages is, who takes the blame in case of failures. ''In a love marriage, the burden of sorting out the relationship is entirely that of the couple. Not everybody today is willing to take that burden,'' says Singh. Purnima Divgi agrees: ''If a love marriage fails, the young couple has only themselves to blame.''
| By Mary on Monday, September 04, 2000 - 03:01 pm: |
Well, I just have to applaud people who can make an arranged marriage work. I am 47 and divorced. I got married at 23. I married someone that my parents did not approve of but whom I thought I loved and knew ver well. We were engaged for 3 years before getting married. I think that any marriage can work if you MAKE it work. And maybe my culture just gives up too easily.
But there are also times when no matter what you do, the marriage is doomed as I think mine was. Back in my grandparents' or even my parents' day, divorce was not so common. Now, if you stay married for over 10 years, it's a miracle. I was married for 24.
I am just in awe of people who have never met, who get married, and can stay HAPPILY married the rest of their lives......or are they just "settling"?
| By Karen on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 - 03:09 am: |
Hello, I'm an east-indian girl who loves her parents and family very much. I don't ever want to put any misery or grief into their lives. The only problem is that I'm in love with someone that is not the same caste as me. I'm jatt and he is not. I am very much in love with him, but my parents only believe in Arranged Marriages. I don't know what to do! I'm 20 years old and plan on getting married by the age of 23 or 24. I've been going out with my boyfriend for 2 years and he loves me with all his heart, as do I. There isn't even any point telling my parents about this relationship because I know that they will just flip and and forbid it. You see, they are very traditional and for them, even talkin to boys is out of the question. I don't know what to do. I would really appreciate some advice or any suggestions. Thankyou very much
Ragards,
Karen
| By mrcarton on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 07:41 am: |
Karen,
I think you'll have to bring your parents
across very slowly. It's obvious you want
this relationship to work for all involved.
Have you brought up the idea of marriage, in
general terms, at all with your parents? You
are still relatively young. How well, if at all,
your parents know your boyfriend? Sometimes a
little exposure helps. If they know him, and
more importantly if they know his family, it
can grease the wheels a bit. I think
parents can surprise you sometimes.
There are
in my opinion two kinds of rigidity in parents:
One is born of fear of the unkown, mostly a fear
that you won't be happy. This can be overcome
by exposure, and especially if there are people,
friends of friends of friends even, that can
connect both sides. It's very hard across castes,
and I don't know your particular situation, but
I've known that to happen. Of course to find out
you have to bring more people into the "secret".
The other kind of rigidity is, to put it bluntly,
pure stubborness born of ignorance. This is when
it helps to have more open minded relatives on
your side to talk to your parents with you or
on your behalf, especially those whose opinions
the parents value. In my extended family for
example, it would usually be my dad that would
get to field these kinds of questions and diffuse
the situation.
It's sometimes easier to make use of this approach --
parents and their children are sometimes not the
most clear headed direct communicators for thorny
issues like this. Above all, be prepared to hold
your ground. It can, and probably will, get rough
before it gets better.
--mc
| By nisha on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 09:45 am: |
Hi,
someone HELP. looks like this is one great place to ask for it! :)
well, uhh.. same old story. i'm in love with this guy.. have been together for two years. and we're both serious about the relationship, planning to get married in about two years' time(i'm 22, he's 24). the problems are these:
# my parents are vehemently opposed to the very concept of love marriage.. in fact, they found out about me and my boyfriend once and nearly threw me out of the house. they only let me back in when i told them i wudnt talk to him again. (i didnt.. for a fortnight. that was about all i cud take.)
# right now he's in the US, working, and I'm with my parents in singapore, studying, and there's abso no way a gradual introduction is possible..
# to top it all off, he's of a different sub-sub-sub-sub caste (uff!) and is from maharashtra whereas 'm from karnataka. i really dont see my parents reconciling with that fact.
it goes without saying, i guess, that there's no way i'm going to break up with this guy just coz my parents want me to.. but there's no way i'm doing something as drastic and hurting as elope or something.. not a chance! ideally i'd want to convince my parents, ideally they'd come round and be ok with this.. but i dont see that happening. i've tried over the past year to talk to them in general about marriage and love marriage and all.. but every time they come up with things like 'oh, love marriages aren't for decent people like us..' (sheesh!) and 'i know *you* aren't going to get involved in any sort of lafda, i *trust* you.' which only worsens the guilt gut i have for lying to them about this. :(
to cut a long story short, i need help.. how do i go about convincing them?
thanks..
| By Salil on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 01:19 pm: |
Hey Nisha, there's no big difference between a Maharashtrian and a Kannad. Your parents are just trying to get their way cause their're uncertain about someone who they haven't selected. Be firm about your commitement to this guy and put forth his strong points and his good family background. You know, show your parents he has the works like a cultured family, values good job etc.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 10:07 pm: |
nisha,
I saw your post in the other thread (answer to Andrew's question regarding sunitha). Based on that, it seems like you are mature in understanding what and why parents are opposed to this.
Anyway, if you work at it long enough and refuse to be part of an arranged marriage, I'm sure your parents will come through. Does anyone else in your family know about it and can help you? Are there other examples of love marriages with what your parents may consider "decent" families? Anyone close in your own family? I guess the key is to continue to insist that they (the ones who had love marriage) are part of the family and that the family didn't suffer any loss of face with the rest of them.
I'm a man married for 8 years through arrianged marriage. One of my close cousins was a love marriage, after mine. If theirs happened earlier than mine, I probably would have gone for a love marriage as well. They were "ostracised" for a while, but after a couple of years (and after the birth of the first child), they've gotten very close and now no one distinguishes that couple from us.
I also feel that some parents have to continue to maintain their place in society and it is better for them to publicly disapprove of the marriage. But after a few years, they will realize that what they got in return was not much from their close social circle. Also, they may see other parents of love marriage enjoying little degradation in their place in society.
I'm not casting parents in a very positive light - I'm being blunt, but I think this is close to reality of the situation. Differences in caste, level of wealth and state in which people are raised are just an excuse for the real problem, which is dispproval of them as parents within their community.
| By Foiz on Friday, October 20, 2000 - 01:11 am: |
Anonymous (who was doing the research on arranged marriages)
I would like to hear from you. What did you find out. I'm doing a research on arranged marriages too and mostly the role and treatment of women in these marriages.
Would you like to share some of your information.
Also anyone who would like to share any stories/experiences related to arranged marriages, i'd love to hear from you.
I'm a theatre major and i hope to eventually produce my research in the form of a forum/political theatre performance.
I'd like to add that this page was really interesting, but people should not lash out on eachother.
some of the racist statements were uncalled for too.
| By Sarah on Monday, October 23, 2000 - 10:02 am: |
To Anonymous and others in her position: forgive me if i sound harsh, but i truly want to help you girls. First of all, having an affair with a married man/woman is wrong without any exception. Second, even if the Indian guy isnt married, you girls should think twice about getting yourself involved with him.
If he grew up in India, his culture is ingrained in him so much that your union will not work longterm 99.9% of the time. I know how it is to be madly in love-it hurts to be apart and all the other stuff that goes along with it. Most of the time, Indian men are not sincere when they get involved with white girls. Even if they are sincere, their cultural values will cause a conflict sooner or later. Even if they appear westernized and say all the things you like to hear, they are still very much indian in their core values.
Trust me when I say this, except in rare cases, your relationship will not fruitful in the long run. You girls will have to put up with a lot if you ever get married and have kids. All their exotic or erotic feel about them is on the surface and temporary. Girls, go find yourself a good ol' American boy- they are the best in the world.
| By Anj on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:11 am: |
After seeing some of the postings on this site, i thought it is high time I also got my two cents in. I realize the subject of arranged marriage is a very sensitive one for all of us young indian/American or
Indo Canadian people. I was born and raised in canada,and just recently agreed to go to India to meet some prospective matches. I dont have a boyfriend here,and I dont think that only Canadian or American guys are the best. Hence I went Openminded.
I met about 15 young men,and I have to say, I was very disappointed. THese guys were selected when they responded to an ad we placed in a large newspaper.
My ideals and values being highly canadianized, I assumed the guy would ask me a bit about myself, my hobbies or anything personal!! Instead all I got was an bombardment of questions about jobs in Canada, prospects for money etc.
One guy seemed like he might be a good prospect but as soon as something became settled he started to demand I do this and that..dress this way..and not that way.. and I should grow my hair and other such
things. My inner self rebelled, and I just couldnt bring myself to say YES to a man who had such expectations. perhaps i was being a bit judgemental, but after all, I DIDNT tell him what to do!!!
Anyway, I concluded that I would be better off marrying someone from here. NOt cos the men are necessarily better in anyway, but simply at least I will know that he's not gonna marry me for my citizenship, and hopefully like me for who I am, and not for what he wanted me to be.
| By prakash on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 06:04 am: |
Hi Ani,
I just read what you experienced in inidia on hindustan.net dicussion forum. I understand that you went with good hopes and feelings.
Your intentions were really nice. But unfortunatley
the the menthod of implementation was not correct.
I am talking about giving advertiesment in News paper
or having posting on internet etc etc. I have observed
on many ocation that people who respond are mostly
driven with hidden agenda or they have bussiness
sense, they are not really driven to have soulmate.
Infact most of the time they dont even tell you
the whole truth. Arranged marriages could be successful but it demands lot of sacrifices, sense of
undertstanding others needs( of both sides family).
Ofcourse importance of sacrifice could be understood
by those people who knows how to live for others
and not for oneself.
Bottom line is, You can still find your soulmate( back
in india)via your friends and families or some reliable mediator, media can not really help.
Hope you find that Mr. right as soon as possible.
| By Anj on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:34 am: |
thanks prakash. You are right that arranged marriage requires sacrifice, but the one sacrfifice i am not willing to do is to give up my right to decide how i will look and wear, and also the right to be attracted to someone. i cant marry someone and pretend to have feelings for them. IT would go against my own principals.
God only knows where our soulmates are :)
| By prakash on Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 03:45 am: |
Thanks Anj,
I agree with you that each partner in marriage has
rights to choose like dressing style etc. But I have
seen some people doing things which are totally
illogical and wrong and they come up with reasons.
Ex. I have seen pregnant woman wearing pencile hill
sandal. Now question is what man should say in this
situation. What is at stake is not only of hers but
his too. I think one should be sensible enoughs to
demand of rights along with responsiblity. Another
Situation I will give here is Husband having drinks
very frequently in front of kids. Now what that
woman should do.
Your thinking of "right to be attracted to someone" really confuses me. I think this is OK before marriage and not after that. I think attraction gives rise to ideas, and ideas motivates action. You never know then when you will be in love with your attraction.
and is it good to be in love with other woman/man
outside marriage ? This very thought of attraction
is too good if your object of attraction is your
husband or wife.
I see marriage as a cart in which each partner is
one wheel of cart. They both has to revolve in same
direction and with same speed to reach to destination.
One wheel has to adjust to speed of others. Of course if there is no match between two wheels then cart is going to get doomed any way. So it's good to be sure
in which direction the cart can go before one makes decesion to be part of it. Other wise you will waste your time and energy as well as others too only
to find stranded some where on the road of life toatlly helpless and all alone.
Forgive me, If I have hurted you in any way with my thoughts. Just 2 cents from me.
| By Anju on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:18 pm: |
Prakash..
no..I dont think im hurt by ur comments, only puzzles..speaking of horses and carts, in reference to my statement, I think ur putting the cart before the horse. I am not talking about anything after marriage, What I meant by right to be attracted is, I cannot say yEs and marry someone without having some feelings toward them.
I am not talking about situations after marriage such as pregnancy or anything. However in an arrnaged marriage vs love marriage argument, I believe a person should agree to it when they are ready.
Adult men and woman in a marriage relationship, whether arranged or love marriage, should realize that they and their partners are adults, and can use their own common sense to make decisions that affect themself, as they know their decisions will affect theier partner. to assume that their partner wouldnt know whats good for them, is demeaning at best, and degrading at worst.
this is a kind of loaded answer, and I dont mind if others want to comment. I dont presume im correct, but this is what i think
| By Shiori on Saturday, November 18, 2000 - 06:47 pm: |
Hello. I am a Japanese student studying at univ.
about marriages in India and Japan. Both countries
have custom such as arranged marriages so now I'm
writing a thesis comparing India (mainly Hindu
society) and Japan. Because Japan's such custom has
not been sustained any more for these several
decades, people get married to whoever they love. But
on the other hand, arranging a marriage is still
popular and it remains deeply in Indian culture,
doesn't it? I guess there're lots of reasons for it,
religion, caste system, and so on. I'd like to know
your active opinion about arranged marriages 'cause
now I can get information only from lots of books.
Fortunately I've found this page... so reading your
voices, I got many new questions about Indian
marriages.
I'm making a questionaire at this moment and I'm
looking for people who can cooperate with me in
answering it. I would be greatful if anybody gets
interested and replys to me. Thank you very much!!
| By DJ_COOL on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 07:38 pm: |
Hello all, I am a dental student in london and am doing a sociology paper on How Attitudes towards marriages have changed over time" (dont ask me what this has to do with teeth! I dont know either! i was wondering if anybody had some views or experiences they would like to share, what i would like is attitudes towards arranged marriages by both the older and younder generations, do those of you with more experience deplore love marriages? Do the younger ones out there have any strong views against arranged marriages? Do you think that western ideas have influenced your thoughts? I know this may sound a bit vague but this is the best i can do! This is gunna be one hard coursework! Could you please e-mail me your views, Smooth18_uk@yahoo.co.uk
| By LoCo GuJu on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 03:42 am: |
hi. i have read most of the postings above. it seems that the target audience for this site is people with love problems in their late 20's to 30's. i am 19. i am first generation of an Indian family. my parents wish for me to marry within caste, probably around the age of 22 to 24. this is when all the other girls in my caste marry. i am in college right now. of course, my parents love me, and they want me to have an education so that i wont have to work the way they do for money, but they also want me to be happy in life and having a pre arranged marriage is important to them. it is important to their reputation in my particular society. i have never dated. it is not something i want to do. i dont like hitting the bar and club scene that much, though if i did go i could fit right in. ;p i met a man 3 years ago at a wedding. i met him again almost 2 years later. but since the first time i had met him, we have emailed, and phoned almost weekly. now that i am at the uni it is daily. when we talk we can talk for hours at end: talking for a good 7 hours is absolutly normal for us. its crazy, isnt it? but he is 25 right now. and i am 19. his parents will want him married soon. probably within a couple of years. whereas i know my parents probably wont. he is really a great guy. but even though it has been all this time, our relationship is not about love, it is though, above a regular friendship. he understands me like no other guy. he can deal with my little quirks and it actually makes him more attached to me. i dont think i know him as well as he knows me. he also told me that he didnt think i liked him as much as he liked me. he is more intense than me in this way. he feels its the best type of relationship: a best friend and together. he wants to meet with me, to go out, to date. so that we are around each other more, so we can see wether or not it could really go anywhere. i feel immature, and afraid about this. i dont not wish to lose him. but i do not want to go out of my way to meet him. there are way too many expectations involved. one cannot be totally honest when they know there are certain things expected, you naturally want to live up to those expectations and maybe they are not always true. i want to be completely honest with him. but i also dont want to hurt him. we have decided the next time we meet we will decide on where our relationship stands. he is in my caste. i am afraid that i might not find another guy as wonderful and loving and understanding as him, and so am afraid to totally let him go. i feel this is wrong of me. i tell him everything i feel... but i am not good with expressing emotion. my parents had an arranged marriage and it did not involve love. my mother was 16 and my dad had been 24 at that time. i want to know before i accept a relationship that i can love a man. i do not know love. if i knew exactly what i wanted and they matched his thoughts i would tell him right now to go to my parents and ask them to marry us. but its not like that. and he has his options as well. but he makes me priority. i really like him. and he likes me more. but i dont know what to do. it stresses me though, and he would probably tell me right now that i shouldnt be stressing about it. =) any thoughts, anyone? Please, I would appreciate a response ASAP, feel free to email... Thank You.
| By Callie on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 09:13 am: |
I would like to present my situation for view. Perhaps someone will have some input that will help me deal with the severe depression that I am experiencing because of the turn of events I will describe.
I have been involved with an Indian boy named Jay who was born in the United States for the past ten months. We met on the internet but our relationship evolved to mostly chatting on the telephone at least once a day, usually two or three times. He lives in Virginia and I in Maine, USA. We have never met in person, but nonetheless, our feelings for each other are very strong. I truly can say that I have never loved anyone as totally and unquestionbly as I do this boy. When we fell in love I never doubted him for one minute when he told me that he loved me. I am 19 years old and he is 23. He is a hard working, self employed, caring and conscientous man. We both have health problems, mine being end stage kidney failure and he has accepted this and has always been very supportive of me. He has a chronic problem with his digestive system that requires that he be on medication for the rest of his life, and also periodic surgery.
As I said, we have been in love for ten months. The fact that we have never met, and/or that we met on the internet never affected the degree of love that we feel.
About three months ago, Jay's medical problems flared up and his doctor recommended that he have surgery on his intestines. The expense of having the surgery done in the United States would be astronomical, and Jay looked into having it done in India. He told me that he did not want to leave, but I urged him to go if it meant that he would have the surgery that much quicker. i was concerned about his health. His sister lives in India and I felt confident that he would be taken care of. He also told me that his brother in law wanted him to look into being a partner in the diamond business with him. I got the idea that maybe he would go to India and not come back, but on the other hand, jay kept telling me that he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. of course, we always had to look at the reality that my life would be short because there is no cure for my sickness. I have already had double kidney transplants when I was nine years old, so another transplant would not be an option, financially. No insurance company even wants to pay for my three times a week dialysis as it is !
Many times I told Jay that since our future was so unsure, even though we loved each other intensely, if he ever wanted to call it quits and just be friends, I would understand...as long as he told me about it first. I didnt want to find out after the fact that he had been cheating on me. I was always completely faithful to him. (Still am)
Six weeks ago jay left for India. the day he left he called me five times, crying and telling me that he didnt want to leave me, that he loved me more than anything else in his life and promised to call me, email me, write to me...as soon as he got to the city where his sister lived.
After he had been gone for a week I hadnt heard from him. I called his family and left messages for them to please let me know that he was ok. i was worried sick, and I missed him so much. No one returned my calls. I called his business and talked to a relative of his and got very vague answers to my questions about whether Jay was ok. Everyone at his business knew about me because Jay always called me from work. I am sure that they knew we were in love.
Finally after two weeks of anguish and doubts, I got a voice message on my cellphone from Jay saying that he was sorry he hadnt contacted me sooner, he had just gotten out of the hospital, he missed me very much, loved me and would call again as soon as he could. I felt a little better.
That was the last I heard from him. It has been six weeks now. I have sent him email, I wake up every morning hoping that when i turn my cellphone on there will be another message from him. I miss him so much I want to die ! I have terrible nightmares about him, and wonderful dreams. I cant control my emotions, I break into tears at the oddest moments when he comes into my mind. I cant beleive that he just sloughed me off like an old layer of skin.
He was in the area of the earthquake and I was sure that he had been killed and that was why he hadnt contacted me. I thought that there was no feeling as hopeless as not knowing if he was dead or alive,
Then while searching for information about the earthquake I came across the name of a foundation collecting money for earthquake relief. The name of the person who was collecting the money was the same last name as jay's, in the same area of Virginia where he lived. When I saw that my heart came up into my mouth. I was positive that he had died and his family was collecting money for other unfortunate victims in Jays name. I called the phone number in virginia and talked to a girl. It turned out that she was his cousin. She told me that jay was ok, he had not been hurt in the earthquake and he had contacted his parents. Then she said "in fact his older sister has just left for India to help make plans for the WEDDING". I said "What wedding?" and she said "Jay is getting married. He is having an arranged marriage. Didnt you know?"
I cant describe how those words made me feel. For a day after that I was just plain numb..all of my emotions clashed and cancelled each other out... I felt nothing ! Disbelief, devastation, doubt,,all of these feelings took over my life...yet I have not been able to feel angry with jay. I still love him with all of my heart, I miss him, I cry for him, I thank God that he is ok...but I cant beleive that he didnt tell me about this !! all of the times that I told him that I could accept anything as long as it was the truth ! I told him please dont ever lie to me...the truth cant ever hurt me as much as deception...aand every time I told him this, he promised me that he would not lie to me and said that he couldnt hurt me that way because he loved me so much.
I still beleive that he loves me..even though he took the easy way out for himself. As far as I know he is not aware that I know about his marriage. Maybe someday he will walk back into my life as if nothing ever happened. I dont know what I will do if that happens. I do know that I will tell him I know about the marriage (or marriage plans) but I will also tell him that I forgive him. I think that all of this was his parents idea. I think that is why they never called me to let me know that he was ok, and why his cousin at work is always so evasive with me.
Am I crazy to still love this guy? I only wish that he will be happy with the girl that he marries. From reading the postings on the subject of arranged marriages, I have my doubts about whether he will be happy. I hope he gives it a chance to work, I hope that the girl will love him as much as I love him. if i were sure that I was going to live more than another year, I would maybe feel differently about accepting this as a reality. The day that I die, I will die beleiving that Jay loved me, but had no choice but to go along with his parents wishes for him to hav an arranged marriage.
I dont know if anyone wants to respond to any of this...it made me feel better just telling my story. I have been severely depressed and need an outlet for my feelings. Thanks for listening. I love you Jay...God belp us both.
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 10:09 pm: |
i think callie : you are too emotional and the internet friendship is actually no friendship at all.
off course you realize that you have terminal disease. so that guy is having an arranged marriage and did not tell you about it? so? stop crying and being so emotional. he is not your close relative is he?
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 12:21 am: |
Callie,
It is easy to understand especially because of your illness why you placed such importance on your internet relationship. Jay may have felt a common bond because he could share his illness with you and
so you both thought you were in love. You must be realistic about it and realize that he would not compromise the love and support of his family for you. He may love you in his way but he chose his family and his culture. Although it will be difficult you must forget him, he will be happy, he made his choice. You would do better to find a support group on the internet instead of looking for love. As far as a kidney transplant goes ...do what a NH family did...move to Massachusetts, establish residency and get it paid for by Medicare. There is no waiting period. Good Luck
| By Callie on Monday, February 19, 2001 - 09:14 am: |
Thanks for the response to my posting. I know that I have to accept Jay's choice and I will with the passing of time. But the other day I talked to a lady who knows Jay personally and she told me that she is positive that he loved me because he talked to her about me all the time, and she said that his face beamed with happiness when he was talking about me. Being told this has made me feel much better about the situation. I feel that Jay was put in my life for a reason, he gave me moral support when i needed it, he made me happy when it was very difficult to find anything to make me smile or laugh. This lady that I talked to also told me that she is pretty sure that jay will contact me when he comes back to the USA...and that he and I will be able to remain friends. I hope for that too. I accept his choice because I know that he talked about his plans with this lady and explained to her why he had to choose the arranged marriage option. it was because there was no future with me, which is true, and he felt like he was running out of time. I dont understand the concept of arranged marriages, but I know that they are a common thing in the Indian culture and he had to respect his parents. I respect my father and that is why I could not meet Jay in person. But I had his love for 10 months, and I am grateful for that time. My life has been enriched by our relationship and I feel absolutely no bitterness toward him. Like I said before, I hope that he has a happy marriage with beautiful children. Maybe in another lifetime, he and I will meet in more sound bodies....i know i have been here before, and I'll come back again.
| By sunil on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 04:29 pm: |
hi i m sunil from rajkot i m gujarati my age is 29 year i m income tax consultant i want gorls for life
partner i m in rich family my email is sungloss_2000@yahoo.com
| By sunil on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 04:31 pm: |
hi i m sunil from rajkot i m gujarati my age is 29 year i m income tax consultant i want girls for life
partner i m in rich family my email is sungloss_2000@yahoo.com
| By anon on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 07:37 am: |
Arranged marraiges.
From the crap written here you would think that white society doesn't have affairs, get divorced and are always happy together.
What is the figure fifty percent divorce rate?
Even indians who have married whites do get divorced from them for various reasons.
What you see on the television is not real.
Get real
| By anon on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 07:22 am: |
It is a womder that this site exists. Can you imagine a white putting up a site and then allowing none whites to come in and put up any such •••• that they want?
Why do indians allow everybody to come onto this site and print any crap about indians here?
There are women in america who think they have married for love, but end up in abusive relationships but you don't hear about that because the whites want to portray themselves as better or perfect.
| By srsh on Monday, September 17, 2001 - 06:05 am: |
I believe in arrange marriage because I trust in myself. If I am nice everyone is nice like WYSIWYG. You can see same thing in different views its up to the individual which side & how he takes it.
I like to end up with saying Love Marriage you build up lot of hopes by promising together(without any action)lot of things.
In Arrange marriage we hope a little & achieve most by action with responsibility & principles.
| By gsreddy on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 09:42 am: |
my brother in law married a girl two years back.
from the day one that girl creating problems. she is doing her graduation. my brother in law is not doing anything.. now she claims that, he is impotent.
and asking for divorse. but he is not impotent. she is blamming him with the support of their parents.
finally he also wants to take divorce. now she is asking expenditure incurred at marriage, youngagement and at reception function. we are ready to pay back the dowry, which she was given at the time of marriage.
could you please guide us the better solution