| By MITA on Tuesday, July 06, 1999 - 10:21 pm: |
Hi my name is Mita and i have a real problem. look i am dating this guy for about 9 months now and things are going great but for one thing, he is from a different caste than i am. i am guju or in other words lleva patidar surti and he is about the same but my parents say no cause of his last name. mine is patel and his is mistry. what do i do. all of my friends tell me to just make my parents understand but they do not know my dad. ha is a real a__hole, and does not understand anything. he is soooo hard to talk to, and on top of everthing else i think that my boyfriend might have told his parents about me but i think they told him no,or something. i haven't talked to my b/f in about 1 month and we have decided not to talk to each other until my b-day, which is in Sept. Cause everybody is so suspicious of us. i really do not get along with my parents at all. i fight with them all of the time. i need someone's help as soon as possible. what should i do, just run away, or stay with my parents and marry someone that i will never love, and live just like a dead person. please help me, i am sooo confused.
| By Pooja on Wednesday, July 07, 1999 - 01:54 am: |
Mita, it all depends on your priorties or obligations. It depends how do you feel about your parents, to me it seems you have zero respect for your parents, considering you just called your own father an a__hole? I think it would be better if you just leave them, atleast they won't be that much hurt, if they ever come across this post, hearing their daughter thinks of them as bunch of asses. Otherwise, you should sit back, think with calm mind, what do you want out of your life? Considering that guy has told you, that he will not talk to you till your bday, he is giving himself some time to think about it all this. So should you. Do you think he will go against his parents will? Does he have the same kind of relationship with his parent as you do (calling your own dad "a__hole" ?) I don't know how old you are, but I would suggest you to act a bit maturely and think calmly, don't get too emotional in such situations, you will loose your good thinking abilities.
| By MITA on Wednesday, July 07, 1999 - 11:00 pm: |
DEAR POOJA,
I AM SORRY IF I OFFENED U, WITH THE REMARK ABOUT MY DAD, BUT IT IS TRUE I REALLY DO NOT GET ALONG WITH MY PARENTS AT ALL. LIKE, JUST YESTERDAY WE GOT INTO A FIGHT. MY DAD TRIES TO RULE EVEYONE'S LIFE, AND HE DOES NOT LIKE ME CAUSE I SPEAK MY MIND, AND I KNOW WHAT I WANT IN LIFE. MY FATHER ALWAYS TELLS EVERBODY HOW BAD I AM BUT IN REALITY I AM REALLY JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT. AND I AM 20 YEARS OLD AND IN COLLEGE. I AM NOT GOING TO BREAK UP WITH MY B/F ANY TIME SOON JUST FOR MY DAD. I HAVE ABOUT TWO MORE YEARS TO FINISH SCHOOL AND I HOPE THEN THAT I WILL MAKE MY DECISION BUT I AM JUST SO STRESSED OUT SOMETIMES THAT I SOMETIMES WISH THAT I COULD JUST DROP OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH FOREVER. SORRY, BUT I HAVE TO GO BACK TO MY JAIL (HOME) I WILL TELL U MORE TOMORROW OF WHY I CALL IT MY JAIL.
| By Princess on Thursday, July 08, 1999 - 04:00 am: |
Mita,
You are young. Parents can be very frustrating sometimes and I understand that however at 20 you don't have the knowledge nor the experience that they posses from life. Sure they may be unreasonable and of a different generation but you need to be practical.
Don't walk out on a college education or your family for anyone. You aren't yet old enough to make that decision. At 27 I'd never leave my family for anyone or anything. Life is full of compromises and that is your first lesson in life. If you truly love eachother then let time decide where your paths lead.
Both you and your boyfriend need to play things cool and wait it out till you guys get out of school and are holding jobs because at your age there is nothing more luxorious then having your college education paid for and having no rent or bills to pay. Take advantage of it and be practical. Put up with your parents not because of the material things but because you are still young and living at home and they are your parents.
If you lose respect for them at this age you never will respect them in the future. And if they realize that you don't respect them now they never will respect you back in the future.
| By love on Thursday, July 08, 1999 - 10:46 pm: |
Hello to everybody
i am no indian person but iŽll get married with one , i love him so much and he love me too
i dont live there
I wanna know all about their customes, habits , he is christian and what kind of wedding they do it, and i have to do some important there
thanks
| By Ginger on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 06:29 pm: |
Dear Mita,
I would like to tell you that i was in the same boat as you a couple of years ago. Thankfully my parents came round, and so did his, but i must admit after much drama. And also after both of us finished our degrees. Let me tell you, did i put up a fight...anyways, we are getting engaged soon and i just wanted to say after all these years, it was totally worth the effort, the sleepless nights etc. After dealing with the inevitable issues that surround a daughter brought up in Australia, and parents from the old world, we are one big happy family. Only fight for it if it is worth it, and as far as I'm concerned, if it is love, it is always worth it...
Keep us posted yeah?
| By avatar on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 12:57 am: |
Dear Ginger,
I'm sorry but could you further elaborate on your situation. forgive me for being curious but could you explain why it was so difficult and how everything got resolved? Thanks.
| By Ginger on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 08:13 am: |
dear avatar,
no, don't apologise, I don't mind elaborating. Our story is a long one, and at the risk of boring you, i will give you the very modified version. Well first of all we are from different states of Australia and met on holiday and subsequently were doing the long distance thing. The parents' first gripe was the fact that they didn't think that we knew eachother well enough, fair enough i say. But then there was the major hurdle, and that is that we are different castes and religion, well that is the one that took ages to get over, and the one that i understand, but do not accept.
My parents are ok as far as parents go, and usually pretty open minded, but this time all their open mindedness went out the window, as the future of their first daughter lay before us all. It sounds weird telling the story 3 years later, because it was much worse at the time then what i remember now...Anyways, we had to both try really hard, just basically with a lot of talking and not giving up, i just did not give in to my parents, probably for the first time in my life.
Finally everyone met eachother and well the rest is hisory. Well it's not really yet, as i said we are getting engaged soon, so it is all just beginning i suppose. We have both identified that there will be maybe more compromise than the average couple in our relationship, although we have both been brought up here, we both have a strong sense of self, and of our roots. Over the years we have come to acknowledge and accept eachothers differences, including family wise.
Although i am a hopeless romantic, i do have my head screwed on straight, and i know that we have to both adjust, but as long as we are BOTH aware of that, then we have made a conscious decision to make it work despite all the problems our parents were sure that we would not be able to handle. Basically we both take each day as it comes, why start stressing about something that may or may not happen tomorrow yeah? Our parents are really great now, they did a complete turn around, my mum is absolutely crazy about him now. It was just a matter of them seeing the person and then putting everything else into perspective i think. Yeah so that is basically my story, actually you could easily have mistaken my story for the same story as the half a million indian movies you've probably seen...ha ha I'd hate to think that my life is as corny as an Indian movie, but at times i do have to wonder. Does that help Avatar, i hope so becos i do have a tendency to go on...catch-ya.
| By MITA on Wednesday, July 21, 1999 - 09:54 pm: |
To:Ginger on Sunday, July 11, 1999 - 08:43 pm:
Dear Ginger,
How are you? I guess after reading the message you left for
me. I really want to thank u, you have helped me alot with
trying to be patient. well, i have just recently picked my
major, it is physical Therapy. and as u can see it is going
to take me a while to finish it. about 2 years. and
hopefully by then my parents will finally agree. and i also
want to thank you for not yelling at me for what i called my
dad,I HAVE GOTTEN ALOT OF GRIEF FOR THAT STATEMENT IN THE
PAST, it is probably cause u went through it.
| By avatar on Thursday, July 22, 1999 - 05:56 pm: |
Ginger,
Thanks for elaborating. I hope things work out for all of you eventually
| By preeta on Wednesday, August 04, 1999 - 08:09 pm: |
Hi,
I'm in a very stressed out situation - I came to US prior to my engagement and had to go back to India to get married. But I fell in love with somebody in US - both of us like each other lots -But i don't have any inclination towards the guy whom i got married - All I can think of is DIVORCE. What should I DO?
| By Princess on Thursday, August 05, 1999 - 04:38 am: |
Preeta,
You should have thought of the consequences beforehand. You were not only unfair to one person but three including yourself and the two men in your life. Why did you get married if you didn't want to?
On a more realistic thought you need to access the situation with a level head. Aren't you being unfair towards your current husband? Is he a good man? What will you be losing if you leave him and run away with your lover? What will the consequences be on you and your family? Is your lover even anywhere close by to go back to? Does he even want you back? Do you think this is ethical?
| By AAA on Saturday, August 07, 1999 - 06:20 pm: |
Hi Preeta,
Its unfortunate that you are in this situation. However if you are in US and is in love with someone here and really likes him then I think divorce is the solution. As Princess rightly said you should have thought of consequences beforehand but if your marriage is not going to last in the long run then I dont see any problem in divorce. However you are the best judge.
| By Regis on Sunday, August 15, 1999 - 09:02 pm: |
Hi all!
I'm French, so, sorry if my english writing is not so good...
About arranged marriage, I'm very concerned today because 7 months ago I met an Indian girl... today I love an Indian girl and she loves me! But she told me about the tradition of arranged marriages. She wants to please to her parents, and to let them choose her future husband.
I can't judge a tradition, I can't tell what I think because I'm too ignorant about.
I let her the choice of her life. If she wants I leave, I leave, even if it's very hard, if she wants I stay, I stay. Just because I love her, I don't want to fight, I don't want to demand anything about her own life, I just want to give her all I can, all my love.
I try to understand her, so I try to understand this tradition.
However, I can't imagine that she would go with another man when she loves me! It would be very difficult to accept, and very painful!
I'd just like to read your opinions and perhaps to find some helps!
Have happiness!
| By Anonymous on Friday, August 27, 1999 - 06:51 am: |
Regis, be very careful and think about ending it now. If anyone believe that 'forced' arrange marriages do not exist in India, they are fooling themselves.
Unfortunately, it's not always easy to spot the 'forcing' coming as it appears through manipulation.
If you are a child with parents who expect you to go through an arranged marriage, please do not date anyone until you decide that you have the backbone to stand up for the person you might fall in love with. While you might be a little lonely, you will save everyone alot of pain in the end.
If you are a parent who will disown your child in they marry outside of your community, don't let them go West to school or whatever. Your children won't really believe you will disown them for falling in love with someone else.
I had always believed that love conquered all. However, my parents love for me is unconditional. But then, love is not the primary objective in an arranged marriage, especially one that is forced.
| By Brown Sugar on Friday, August 27, 1999 - 08:42 am: |
Hi everyone,
I just came back from a wedding last weekend, where the bride was Hindu (Gujarati) and the groom was a white, Christian male. I was talking to the bride afterwards, and this is what she said," It IS very difficult, when you have to choose between what your parents say regarding marrying someone who is the same religion and caste as you, and the man you love. But as I have learned, even if your parents threaten that they will not like the weddng or that you won't be their daughter anymore, you know that that's not true. They will be upset and disappointed for a while..but you are still they're daughter, and whatever makes you happy, will eventually make them happy. It might take a while, but it will happen. And that is what happend. So girls...if you love a man who is not the same religion as u, don't despair..your parents love you - they're not going to give up their daughter just because she didnt' listen to them regarding who to marry. :)
| By Opinion on Friday, August 27, 1999 - 05:48 pm: |
I agree with Brown Sugar.
Too many times, parents use manipulations, threats and coersion to change their children's mind about marrying a non-Indian. However, in the end, if they are educated, have a little bit of open-mind and most of all LOVE their child, they will come around.
| By Anonymous on Sunday, August 29, 1999 - 04:25 pm: |
Maybe you can come offer your experiences and words...
Mr Sampadhaki
Pls do NOT solicit or post advertisements on this site.
-ed.
| By Regis on Sunday, August 29, 1999 - 08:34 pm: |
Thanks very much for your answers. I feel less alone...
Brow Sugar, you give me hope!!!
Anonymous, I think a lot about what I live with her. Sincerely, it's difficult to plan to end it when I know there's love, and when I'm sure we could build together a nice life... However, I think whatever choice I take, I risk a lot of pain, she risks a lot of pain. I just hope to take the good choice !
| By Editor on Friday, October 01, 1999 - 02:05 am: |
Note for Writers? We want your Bio?
If you are regular contributor to the forums, please POST a very brief note on you about 10 to 15 lines and create a separate page introducing regular writers. A picture in any format can also be Uploaded automatically, optionally.
Introduction : Profiles of Writers, Moderators & Frequent Contributors
Introduction : Help on IndiaTalking - Most Comprehensive Discussions On India - Suggestions & review of discussions
| By FunLover on Saturday, October 02, 1999 - 12:23 am: |
Editor,
Why do you need my bio and picture for? My mother is after me to send her the same. She wants to look for a girl for me. Will you do the same? If that is the plan then I'll send you the requirements for her (vital statistics, complexion of skin, length of hair, breadth of face, pout of lips etc.) too. So, what do you say?
Thanks and expecting a positive reply from you,
FunLover
| By Editor on Saturday, October 02, 1999 - 07:00 pm: |
Dear FunLover
We do not need as such as it is surely an option.
Many readers wanted us to add a faeture to review the discussions, to know a bit more the various participants and writers so we started the new feature.
If anyone is interested to post a profile in brief it can be anonymous but with the alias name used.
Hope that helps. Have a good weekend...
| By Bhima Patel on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 07:40 am: |
For all you guys that criticize the parents and family for not letting them marry non-Hindus.
It is a self defense mechanism to protect the groups numbers. If nobody preserved this defense then Hindusthan.net which is based outside Hidnusthan may not exist.
So I say do whatever you must but make sure us Hindus don't loose out in the numbers game.
Yes, the numbers game. Where a group must maintain its population and try to increase, while maintaining the quality (wealth, education, social reputation, hygiene and overall view of the group by others) and increasing the quality as well of its members.
Do what it takes to win the numbers game!
So all of you that say let us fail in the numbers game for love and lust.
**C* YOU!
| By Muscle Man on Monday, October 18, 1999 - 08:40 am: |
Bhima Patel,
Your argument is so one-sided and many Hindu living in England marry white girls or as you would say NON-HINDUS.
I cannot see any much wealth in India as it is all kept by the upper classes through greed and corruption. The quality of your members is bad.
The caste system in India degrades people of lower classes and the upper crust does not give a dam! That is why you get Oxfam like charities to ask for 1 pound a month to sponsor a Indian who hasn't had the chance to live a fulfilling life. If your wealth,education and social reputation was one of quality then those adverts should never be.
| By Leena on Friday, November 05, 1999 - 09:58 pm: |
Brown Sugar's story gives me hope.
I'm in the same boat (I've posted to one of these discussion strings before about my story). I just have to keep telling myself that ultimately, it is my *happiness* that my parents want...it's just that they also believe that marring along the traditional, arranged-marriage lines will make me happy, simply because it's a formula for success for them and others!
Leena
| By elephant on Tuesday, November 09, 1999 - 03:46 pm: |
dear friends i am a MA student in London, studying youth & community-my dissertation is on British Arranged marriages, more specifically, what young peple think of them, how it affects their lives and what you percieve "arranged marriage means to you" I would be intrested in comparing the differences with Muslim, Hindu and Sikh marriages...can you young people help?
| By Angella on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 04:39 am: |
Dear friends: I am all set to marry the man of my dreams who is a Kashmiri. I happen to be a Keralite, so you can imagine what a great north-south divide there exists!! I totally agree with Brown Sugar, that eventually parents (from both sides) do come around - it is only a matter of time and patience. Any comments?
| By Hopeless on Sunday, November 14, 1999 - 09:17 pm: |
Hey. I have read some of these entries and found that I am in the same boat as a lot of people out there. I have kind of been in and out of a relationship with this white guy for about two years now. What I mean by in and out is that we go through this series of breakups becuase I freak out about the future and my parents and will try to be apart from him even though I really still care about him so much. Right now, we are not together but going to the same school is hard because we still see each other a lot and spend time together. Sometimes, I try to think logically and find that there are differences between the two of us that go beyond race. Just things that I don't know if I want to deal with for the rest of my life. I just don't know if I try to find other things wrong with him becuase deep down inside I am scared that the only reason I am not with him is because of his race and the idea of hurting my parents. No matter how many times I think in my head that he is not "the one" I just can't let go. I don't know why. All I know right now is that I am so sad and just waiting to be happy again...but that seems to be really really far away. I just don't know what to do anymore. Any advice would be great. thanks a lot.
| By Indiangirl on Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - 01:49 am: |
Hopeless
I think you really need to think about this. First, do your parents know about him? If they don't, have you considered the idea of just maybe presenting them with a hypothetical situation....sometimes, our parents surprise us with their attitudes!! You might want to find out how exactly would they feel about this. Second, you are right about being scared.....but the question here that comes in is how much are you willing to put yourself through for him? Do you think that your feelings for him are that strong?? Because it seems as if you already have reservations about you two regardless of what your parents might or might not say. Then, I would suggest stop spending time with him, if you see him, leave it to hi/hello.....I know that's hard, but that's the only way you will ever move on.......that is very important......"out of sight, out of mind" does work!!!!! try it!!! and, you will see, happiness will be knocking at your door soon enough!!!!
| By SAM on Tuesday, November 23, 1999 - 10:06 pm: |
Basic western & eastern philosophies are different & will definitely result in a lot of hurt for the person who beleives in eastern philosophy.This is for two people who beleive in two different philosophies
& are planning to settle together.
However Indian children who have grown up in U.S./Europe have never imbibed the eastern philosophies & are western in their outlook.So they should be allowed to marry the Britishers/Americans
whose upbringing is based on western philosophies.And
should never be asked to marry any Indian from India.
The two are incompatible.
| By kavita on Friday, December 03, 1999 - 06:16 pm: |
I am doing a research paper on Arranged Marriages as relates to Intercultural ethical perspectives. Can someone help find resources, journal articles or books?
| By Shocked on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 03:09 pm: |
Hi friends,
There are so many people in the same boat and i always thought i was drowing alone! even then the process of drowning does not become too pleasant! there is an interesting statement that INDIANGIRL has made-parents surprise you with their attitude. Believe me that happens-but most of the time it is an UNPLEASANT surprise. The same parents which used to pose so open-minded when it was not their son/daughter, who helped daughter of their friends marry the guy she liked, were SO TENSE when their son told them that he wants to marry a girl from a lower caste. And the poor son has gone too far away to come back; not physically, emotionally. he is so attached to the girl, he simply cant leave her crying. poor guy is also attached to his parents who tacitly, unspokenly give a message that they will spoil their own life if he did not forget the girl.
had i known this would be their reaction i would not have gone that far. i could not have informed them earlier as i was still a student and they would have never taken me seriously; more than that i did not want them to say yes to a college going son-how would they then stop him from dating too often , how would they be sure that their son is not spoiling his studies and career, so i made a career out of my studies and went to them after that.
it has been almost an year since their behaviour forced me to break a relationship; i am not over with it and doubt if i ever would be; i know the girl is also not over with it though i have not talked to her for a long long time. i guess she would be getting married against her wishes.
crazy me, still thinks it is a joke that nature is playing and we would soon be together; she, me and my parents.
| By Shocked on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 12:30 pm: |
I had written a message yesterday. it was there on the board till some time back but is not here now. whatever happened to it!!!
| By Editor on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 01:32 pm: |
To Shocked
Well I guess you are too shocked.
Please refresh your Browser or start your Pc.
Your message posted yesterday is there.
By Shocked on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 07:39 am:
See on top of your todays message.
| By JadeKitty on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 06:37 am: |
Dear Friends,
I feel so much better knowing that I am not alone in my dilemma. You see, I have been in a relationship with the sweetest guy for about a year now. We were actually set up by one of my friends and I had never expected it to get so serious. We have talked about marriage in the future but we are both worried (actually deathly afraid) of what our parents will say. At first his parents knew of our relationship and gave their consent. However, after a few months, they wanted him to end it for reasons undisclosed by them. He told them that he did but they still suspect otherwise. Now, I am afraid to even mention him to my parents. They are very stict and believe in arranged marriage only. I love both my parents and him very much and I don't want to hurt either one. Here's the worst part. Even if I do get enough courage to ask them, they will say no because he is Gujurati and I am a south Indian Bhramin. It's unheard of (for my parents)for a Bhramin girl to marry a Gujurati boy. What should I do? They stongly believe in caste system and arranged marriage. Not to mention, they have a strong dislike for Gujurati people. I love them both so much and don't want to lose either one.
| By divya on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 10:33 am: |
Jadekitty - is it your life? I am also Indian but I will not submit to a traditional arranged marriage. My parents already know this. I want to know someone fairly well before I will marry them. During this life time I will marry a man that I love not one that is only compatible with my family's requirements. While finding one which I love and is compatible with my family is ideal I realize this may not happen. Their requirements are too specific and many of them are quite silly. For example, in regards to skin color. If I find someone who is kind and intelligent and interesting I will not not date them because they are darker then me. Thats ridiculous. Also, in regards to caste I will not limit my dates to only those from my caste. This is not a good system to begin with. While I realize you do not want to disappoint your parents you should also think about disappointing yourself. Are you going to be happy marrying a virtual stranger?? If you do decide to meet some men your parents recommend then make sure you "date" them. Dont agree to marry them within a month. You really need to value your life and realize the most important decision you will ever make is in regards to who you marry. Take the time to get to know whoever it is you may marry. Do not make the mistake of marrying a stranger. You may regret it for the next 70 years. I know its not a gamble I am not willing to take.
| By InSearchOfSolution on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 11:19 am: |
hi divya,
what would you suggest to someone who loves both his parents as well as his lady love but his parents feel that if he married to this lower caste lady they will not be able to live and tacitly give an indication of unnatural death occuring because of that-heart attacks and stuff-you know what i mean. i know its basically emotional blackmail but can one afford to take a chance. can one afford to loose precious love? what should one do?
| By Mita on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 07:52 pm: |
hey everyone this is mita u know from the top of the page well i want to tell everyone thankyou for ur support because everything worked out at the end, and all of u that wrote to me thanks it took a while but things worked out...and about me and my b/f we broke up and now things r good, and almost back to normal.
luv alwayz,
mita
| By divya on Sunday, January 30, 2000 - 01:50 pm: |
In Search of - I dont think parents should black mail their children into doing things. To say they will die because their child will not submit to an arranged marriage is absurd. They are being immature and their bluff should not be entertained. Again, while I respect my parents and other elders I also respect myself. I am not their fool who will do anything to please them, even when I feel it is not correct. So to answer your question, one should live their life in a moral and correct way which does not neccessarily mean doing whatever it takes, including sacrificing their love, to please their parents. Particularly, in the circumstance you seem to be describing, when their parents are restricting them from marrying someone based upon ignorance and predjiduce. I know this may shock many here but Indian parents are NOT always right.
| By InSearchOfSoln on Thursday, February 17, 2000 - 08:42 pm: |
thank you divya for replying...
| By Leena on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 05:37 pm: |
OK, here's another perspective on the arranged marriage...did anyone happen to watch "Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionare," and what did you think about it, *especially* in light of the aftermath?
Just curious....because I was appalled. At least in the arranged marriages I know of, both the man and woman have some idea/understanding of what their future mate is like. These women had no idea, and they were willing to marry a guy they knew nothing about, just beacuse of his bucks!
| By Dexter on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 06:17 pm: |
Leena,
Yes I did watch that program unfortunately. It was my job to broadcast that program in my hometown. The tv station that I work at is a local FOX station.
It's funny that you mention arranged marriage with the program in particular. Some with think that arranged marriages start off with two strangers meeting each other and they're united, which it doesn't work that way.
As little as I know about arranged marriages, the arrangement is done by either the parents of the groom or the parents of the bride, or both sets of parents together. Let me know if I'm wrong.
But this sorry excuse for a TV show, where 50 different women (I hate to say it) are literally prostituting themselves on national television to marry a man that they don't know, never had heard of or never have seen before, just solely for his money.
I can't believe that there were women who were gullible enough to get on national tv in order to be eligible to marry an invisible man who's happens to be a multi-millionaire. They were being paraded around like a beauty pageant, with the swimsuit competition, evening gown competition, etc. But instead of the female contestants competing for a beauty pageant crown, they're competing for a WEDDING RING. Now what's wrong with this picture?
I'm a heterosexual guy and I hated the show. For instance, the other 49 women that the millionaire didn't pick as a wife. What's going to happen to them when they go back to their hometowns? Does anybody think that some of the guys will have second thoughts about dating them? There has to be a few guys who knew some of them before going on television and some are probably saying "If $$$ is the only reason for her getting with me, then she'll might dump me like a bad habit if I end up broke. She might not give me the time of day if I'm not rich enough."
Now he's getting an anullment from his wife because of the controversy of a past abusive relationship from an ex-fiance'. That's probably why they didn't show his face until he picked out his wife near the end of the show. He probably would've been sued by his ex or would've gotten arrested by the cops there and then that would be the end of the show.
I'm just rambling on, but I hope you know what I was talking about.
| By Leena on Thursday, February 24, 2000 - 06:55 pm: |
Hi Dexter,
You're right about the traditional definition of an arranged marriage...it's usually a community (parents, relatives, sometimes family friends) who do the arranging based on socio-cultural commonalities.
I'm defining this as an arranged marriage, because...well, it is an arrangement! Two people get together without really knowing each other because they each have something that the other values. In this case, the 50 women wanted to marry, esp. someone with money. The man wants to marry someone, he has certain criteria in mind (hence the questions).
The notion of an arranged marriage doesn't bother me - I don't happen to prefer an arrangement for my self, in this day and age, but that's not to say it doesn't work for some people. But what bothers me about potential arranged marriages is that there is so much uncertainty - what do you really know about a person before you marry them, other than they're from the same community, caste, eat the same food, speak the same language?
I guess that's why I'm doubly bothered by the show - the women went into it totally blind, although the guy had some idea (at least of what they looked like, what kinds of views and perspectices they had) of what the ladies were like.
We're supposed to live in a progressive society, one where self-determination is the norm. So why would anyone give up their ultimate right to choose?! These 50 women did...and in some ways, so did the man. They gave up their right to have all the knowledge they could about their potential mate.
I suppose giving up the right to choose is a choice in itself. Oh well.
| By loafer on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 02:42 pm: |
Hi folks,
You seem to discuss with a preset notion that arranged marriges are bad. The main point that you have for love marraige is that you get to know the person before deciding. But my friends, meeting a person on weekends over dinner is quite different from actually living together. What do you have to say of alarming number of divorce rates in the west.
Choosing the correct partner is a risk that we all have to take at some point in our lives. If the person comes from a similar social and economic background, probability of the sticking together is more. This is where arranged marriage can help. REMEMBER THAT ARRANGED MARRIAGE IS DIFFERENT FROM FORCED MARRIAGE. After selecting a partner from the right background, the boy and girl are allowed to meet to decide for themselves whether to proceed or not. In arranged marriages you let your brain decide, not you heart or hormones.
I have nothing personal against either love or arranged marriages. The ultimate aim of either should be to get the 'ideal' partner.
Long Live Arranged Marriages!!
| By Standing on Wednesday, March 01, 2000 - 12:44 am: |
Loafer, I not sure what you see as negative. The reason why there aren't similar divorce rates in India is because it really isn't possible for many people to get divorced. Divorced women have an incredibly difficult time and are often ostracized from society. It's seen as a blight on the family. So, instead, people stay in abusive, loveless, and sad marriages. Is this is your idea of success? I think it's tragic and it's slowly changing as more and more Indians come to the US and as you see the idea of what constitutes an 'arranged marriage' changing. Even you say that arranged marriages shouldn't be forced (but unfortunately they still are).
I wonder if you are against inter-racial marriages?
| By Anonymous on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 04:53 pm: |
Hello everybody,
I agree with standing, women in India or Indian women elsewhere though in bad marriages tend not to get a divorse for various reasons. In India mostly societal reasons plus the custody of the children is given to the parent who has greater income. If not wealther parent. In most cases if would be the man who is wealthier or has bigger income. Invariable the woman's parents would have gone bankrupt just in performing a marriage.
Women who married men through arranged or so called love marriages, living out side India have different set of pressures. This is what is called keeping up with the Jonses. Not in the American sense; keeping up with the other emigrated families, especially within the Indian community. More and more the previous generation is also coming to this country in the name of helping out and making their children's home permenant residence. These extended families start putting the similar pressures that you see in India. The Technological developments have not helped women in that, gossips fly. In all the young daughter-in-law is victim of all kinds of pressures. children come into picture, makes it even harder to get a divorse. Thus history repeats in new environments with new pressures.
Men definetly want the best of both worlds. If any man says that he disagrees, look at yourself in the mirror when your family is visiting or bad mouthing your wife; in all of this you don't feel they are wrong, or they are entitled, or you don't have the guts to say "I love my wife, I disagree with you". The day men can say to thier mothers "mom you are an honered guest in our home as long as you respect the fact that this is our home not just mine".
| By Standing on Wednesday, March 08, 2000 - 06:08 pm: |
Another thing that confuses me is what seems to be hypocracy around adultery. I'm now aware of many Indian men whose marriage was arranged who are involved in adulterous affairs. Of course, affairs can happen in any type of marriage, but (despite the rhetoric) you don't go into an arranged marriage for love. While people who believe in the arranged marriage system seem pretty vocal against relationships outside of marriage, I think women often tolerate it or don't speak about it, to preserve their own security and social status. This seems to really work in favor of men. Am I right about this? If a woman you knew was married to someone having an affair, would you encourage her to divorce (and face the loss of security, social stigma, etc.)?
| By Kamran on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 05:48 pm: |
Why do people expect different attitudes in an Arranged marriage than a non. People are people. Now days when you get married, under any system ie love or arranged, you can expect that one partner sooner or later will have an affair, you expect that there will be a chance of divorce. Marriage is a big gamble. This is how I approach it: When I go meet a girl and she tells me that she doesn't go to clubs or never has had a boyfriend or never been with a boy, I figure she's lying, especially if she's in or has graduated form university/college.
| By Standing on Friday, March 10, 2000 - 06:00 pm: |
Oh man Kamram. Don't you see how twisted that is? Why would you assume she is lying? Why is it necessary that she lie??? That seems totally backwards and not a good foundation for a life partner.
Arranged marriages and love marriages happen for very different reasons. In an arranged marriage, you may have only met your spouse the day before or for a few days a couple of years ago. Having an affair, then, is not so much a betrayal to the person, but rather a potential betrayal to the institution of marriage. I think it's easier and much more common for women in love marriages to speak out or end the relationship. Men hold alot of power here--perhaps you can't see that?
| By Carmen on Saturday, March 11, 2000 - 01:52 am: |
Kamran,
I think your point is on the money. Your thoughts on the issue of marriage, whether love or arranged, is not twisted. Some die hard Indians still expect to keep old traditional practices in tact even during the 21st Century as the world keeps changing around them...This is a mystery to me and a mistake by Indians to continue living life based on patterns of the past that don't work today. No matter how much some Indians refuse to accept change, it will be a force to reckon with in the future. You can't stop change when the time has come to change.
| By sameer on Saturday, March 11, 2000 - 09:04 am: |
kamran, i think you are twisted in your thoughts. is that why u got screwed.
| By Kamran on Monday, March 13, 2000 - 03:23 am: |
Sammer,
I'm not sure what you mean by saying that 'is that why you got screwed?'. I was born and raised in Canada. I am in the final phase of my university career. I am in the process of looking for a partner, with the help of parents and other relatives. I'm not a saint...and I don't pertend to be. I go to the Indian Jams and I see what goes on. I see girls and guys act one way on the saturday night and than I see them the next morning at the temple acting in a totally opposite way. I'm not saying anything is wrong with that but when a parent comes up to me and tells me that there girl is in University and has lived in residence but she is all homely, I take it with a grain of salt. Because honestly parents really don't know what the kids are doing. Thats just the way is when you are expected to live in two different cultures. I don't live with blinders on. I'm sure that the girl I will marry will probably of had a boyfriend and that doesn't bother me. I just want the girl to be honest when I meet her and tell me. I'm also aware that my marriage will not be like of our parents era, divorce and affairs are now a strong possibility.
| By Leena on Thursday, March 16, 2000 - 07:11 pm: |
Bless you, Kamran, for being a realist!
:)
| By Anonymous on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 04:16 am: |
Is it common for Indian men who had arranged marriages to have affairs? I am madly in love with an Indian man in the US (I am American) who is the same age as my parents. He had an arranged marriage and basically told me had no real relationship with his wife and that she didn't care that we were involved in business activities together.
Well, it changed from business to love after many months. He started out telling me that he loved me the first time he ever saw me and that he knew he would eventually win me over. I had no plans for anything other than friendship. But now I am completely in love with him. Do any of you have any input. I know it is morally wrong and I am trying to end it, but of course when I see him I am so happy to be with him that I don't end it. I have never known anyone like him. I adore him.
What can I do?
| By Anonymous on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 04:23 am: |
He is a jerk.Ignore him and he will go away.He is probably trying to curry sympathy for some sex.
| By Leena on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 04:51 pm: |
Is this man still married, what's his relationship with his wife?
| By Kamran on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 07:20 pm: |
Anonymous,
If he has no loyalty towards his current wife why do you think he will behave different towards you. He wants to get laid and you seem to be willing to help him. Ask for money and see what his reaction his.
| By Standing on Friday, March 17, 2000 - 11:52 pm: |
Anonymous,
Yes this does happen. Affairs are sometimes 'ignored' to preserve the 'marriage' or at least the appearance of a marriage. This man, since he's older, probably had never fallen in love (or even dated) before he got married. Apparently he didn't end up falling in love with his wife (whom he may not have even known when they got married).
Although it's often easy (and even permitted) to have an affair, divorce is much tougher in Indian culture.
| By Anonymous on Monday, March 20, 2000 - 10:12 pm: |
To Leena, yes he is still married and says he has no real relationship with his wife, he works all the time even staying all night at his office working, sleeps in a separate room and doesn't seem to ever go anywhere with her.
To Kamran, I think he would be different with me because he fell in love with me. His wife he met only a few minutes before they married. As far as him only be interested in sleeping with me, we were very close friends for close to a year before there was even a kiss or a hug. And concerning money, he is extremely generous. He has tried to buy a home for me but I would not allow him to. He is constantly doing the kindess things, many of which have been very expensive, but even more importantly were so thoughtful.
To Standing: Should I give up any hope that he will divorce his wife? Of course since I am not very familiar with the culture it is hard for me to understand how it could be so much pressure, when he has lived in the US for probably 30 years. His mother is visiting him from India, but it's not as though he would have family here to pressure him. I feel so awful. I would never want some one to put their wife through the pain of a divorce, so I know i have to end this, but I have never experienced a love like this (I have been married...terrible relationship). I adore him! I think I will never be able to care about another man like I do him because they could never live up to how wonderful he is.
I don't believe he is only interested in sleeping with me since he treated me wonderfully for over a year with no physical contact and it's not like I'm some thin, beauty. If he was only interested in that he could have found some one more attractive and some one who would hav given in much easier. I can't stand to be away from him. But now I am feeling terrible that I let it go this far because if I end it, it will be bad enough to go through the pain myself, but thinking of him being hurt is more than I could stand.
Please give me advice from the cultural perspective.
It would be easier for me to understand if he were another "american" but I know that the culture has a bearing on so much of his life.
HELP
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 21, 2000 - 11:37 pm: |
I am doing a research paper on arranged marriages vs. love marriages and I'm really more curious to hear some experiances, good or bad. I don't agree with arranged marriages, but I would be very interested to talk to people that do. Personally, I could never imagine what an arranged marriage would be like, considering that most of the research that I have found has been negative. For instance, is it true that the husbands of an arranged marriage are allowed to have mistress'? Being American, I don't beleive that is acceptable. Basically, I've read that their is limited love, effort, and time put into arranged marriages. How much of this is accurate?
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 - 02:05 am: |
It is not allowed for the people involved in arranged marriages to have a mistress.Sometimes the couple will not go for a divorce in the interst of the children but there is very rare.
| By Joseph on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 - 05:49 pm: |
Hi Anonymous,
Arranged marriage is just another route to the prcess of marriage. And has both advantages and disadvantages like any other route you take. Although it is true that it works only for the people whose mindset has been nurtured through their upbringing and customs that goes with it. It cannot be forced upon.
So coming to the point, the marriage through arrangement still holds the same principles and ethics of marriage of any kind. And so mistress is not the part of a marriage picture. There are customs of harem and multiple wives which were practiced century ago were part of the custom of the religion or culture, and not because of the type of marriage. Centuries ago, there was only one route to a marriage, and that was by arrangement.
what you may be referring to is the effect of rigidness of a society's belief that marriage is for the lifetime with one partner, despite of spousal abuse or incompatibility. This fosters a sense of immunity in mind of an adulterer, , knowing that S/he will not face consequences despite of the adulterous behavior. But that does nor mean it is ethical in arranged marriage or it is practiced because of arranged marriage.
So with a right mindset, arranged marriage works for the like minded people. After marriage, one hope to develop love, but effort and commitment are as common as you see in any other type of marriages.
| By Standing on Thursday, March 23, 2000 - 06:07 am: |
Anonymous, I'm not sure what advice I can give you, as I'm in a similar situation (and I'm also American). I can't seem to get much information on divorce....there's a website at Emory University that gives legal info; but that's probably not much help to you. There was a success story--a man who divorced his wife and married his girlfriend--on the board; but there have also seen the opposite--people staying in arranged marriages to avoid being shut out by their family, etc. Much depends on his situation. I've decided to give an ultimatum and the date is fast approaching. Good Luck!
I don't want to give Anonymous2 that all arranged marriages are bad. However, some parents do still force their children into them through a variety of measures; and these are probably the negative stories you hear.
| By yyy on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 07:01 am: |
Hello people of course there is going to be someone committing adultry in an arranged marriage if the does not wish to get out. most arrangements allow the husband to do as he pleases. That has been my experience. Let's get with this time and age. If you will not get out of something as a woman because of repercussions then the husband sees it and says to hell with it. I will have my cake and eat it too. It's human nature especially if it was forced by the family. if the wife does not respect herself why would the guy who does not love her even care if he is caught. No one else cares. They only care if they stay together. That is what looks good. Wake up people.
| By Lisa on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 08:39 pm: |
Dear Anonymous:
The one that is with the man that is in the arranged marriage. The only advice that I can give to you is that you should really consider not being with this man. Yes, he may be deeply in love with you and you with him. He is however married to a woman. The woman is not you unfortunately. I am very sure that you are a very nice person and he does see your good qualities. You need to understand one thing though. If he has been living in the US for 30 years and has bee so unhappy in his marriage he should have done something about his situation a long time ago. Now you are dragged into his life. Think about it for a moment. Would you ever do that to him. You seem so nice that you wouldn't hurt him that much. He will not leave his wife because he is ruled by some family hold. He has been here for 30 years and he should have developed his own independence by this time. You have probably heard this before but it sounds to me like he is not strong enough to go after what he wants out of life. He will be free for you when his wife is dead. Sorry to be so blunt but I can sense this in him. If you are willing to be the other woman forever then by all means continue the relationship. You, however seem to be the type that does not want to be second to anyone. Even if he loves you deeply his priorities will always be with his wife no matter what he tells you. I hope this will help you a little. Believe me when I tell you this, I speak from some experience.
| By Anonymous#1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 12:55 am: |
Thanks for the responses. I actually went about 4 days without talking to him and then I build up the strength to think I will end it. But now I have talked to him and just the sound of his voice is all it takes. The most amazing part of this is that I have always been so judgemental of other people's morality. No one who knows me would ever believe I am doing this. I guess I am so close to the situation that I can't see it clearly. He started out in the friendship telling me that he loved me the first time he ever saw me. I was only interested in friendship, but he has been so perfect for sucha long time. But the first time I kissed him, it was over.
I have never felt this way about anyone. He is 20 years older than I am and he is married!! How could this have happened. He has given me the impression that his wife probably thought there was something going on long before there was ever anything but friendship. He has even taken me to his house before when she was there. And she was so nice to me. ( I would never be able to do that now because I would feel so guilty!) But looking back, I now feel as though I might have been on display for her. First she is older, but much more attractive than I am. He brought me back gifts from a trip and he told me that I could even call her and thank her to prove that she knew he had done it. So what I really need is some help understanding this. I am beginning to feel that
maybe he just set out from the beginning with his wife's knowledge that he found somebody that he would like to get for a girlfriend. But he really was dishonest in the beginning making me feel there was a possibility for for a future and has slowly toned down what he says to where he now says that he wishes he could be married to me, but he can't because too many people would be hurt. When he first started telling me his feelings and I would tell him to stop
(he would say "I love you" and my reply was always
"you can't.") he would say that he had spent his whole life doing things to make other people happy and now for the first time he wanted to be happy. Is it a reality that even a man who is 50 is still bound by his culture to stay with an arranged marriage because it is not acceptable for him to divorce? Do you think it is likely that he and his wife were never in love and so she doesn't care if he goes and gets a girlfriend as long as she still stays VERY WELL financially taken care of and he doesn't divorce her? But I know that it is still wrong for me to do such an awful thing to her. It is no excuse, but I love him so much. I know this is a crazy question, you can't stereotype people, but is there something very romantic and erotic about Indian men and the Indian culture? I am deeply in love with him and was for quite a while before there was ever anything physical, but I have never experienced anything like being with him (physically)! Just his touch is incredible. Which of course makes it that much more difficult to resist him. Please write any input you have. This is driving me crazy. I feel so guilty but I also can't stand to be away from him. It is actually physically painful. I know there is no hope that I can ever have him, is there?
| By Anonymous #1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 01:28 am: |
To Standing: I can't believe I have found some one in the same situation! What ultimatum did you give him?
As badly as I want to be with him, I don't think I could ever live with the guilt of knowing that I made him divorce his wife. And since I am also a Christian
(yes I know what hypocrit I am!) I truly think divorce is wrong, but so is what we are doing. How did you relationship start? I think the worse part of all of this is that I don't think I will ever be able to find another man who will measure up to this guy. I am going through my own divorce, which was a terrible thing that I stuck with no matter how miserable I was, but my husband wanted to end it and din't care if I thought divorce was wrong. But even having been married to him since I was a teenager and having children with him, I love this guy so much more than I think I ever did him. This man is such a wonderful combination of total masculinity but so deeply caring and sensitive. I have never met anyone like him. And though other people would not look at him and think he was some incredibly handsome guy, when I look at him there is no one I find more attractive. Just the slightest touch from him is incredible. I am usually such a strong independent person, and I find myself thinking that I would let him totally dominate me. I feel like he takes care of me (and I would usually not want that!) And I have never been a jealous person, but I have come to the point of where just thinking of him touching some one is more than I can handle. And he's married! Of course he says he doesn't sleep with his wife, but I can't even stand the thought of them in the same house. It's not that I feel bad things towards her, he belongs to her (OH THAT HURTS!)but I still can't handle thinking of those things. Please share any of your feelings. How did this happen to you? How are you handling it? Is your boyfriend close to your age?
And to Lisa: You said you are speaking from experience. I take it that your experience was not a good one? How did you handle it?
| By Lisa on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 02:10 am: |
Dear Anonymous #1
Please read my story on another thread entitled:
Deep in love, finding a solution to the Triangular afairs (something like that)
Good Luck to you
Lisa
| By Standing on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 05:39 am: |
Anonymous #1-you can find more information on my situation there too. We seem to have gotten to similar places by very different paths. How old are your children? Do they know?
| By Anonymous #1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 10:26 pm: |
To Standing and Lisa,
I have 2 daughters 18 and 8 and i know that they think this is some weird relationship. They know him pretty well from when we first started being friends. He has done some incredibly generous and nice things for them for birthdays etc. but I know they would never handle their mother having a boyfriend even though their dad is the one ending it. (Yes, deep down I was glad, because I have always been the one who was miserable but would put up with anything. Him divorcing me gives me some crazy peace of mind that I'm not the one who did the bad thing in finally ending it!) And of course my kids know he is married even though they know it is a situation of where he never goes anywhere with her and is always at work (even sleeps there sometimes), but I have brought them up to have the same strict religious beliefs that I have always had (that's why this is so AWFUL!)
so they would go crazy thinking I would do something so awful. But I think it is obvious to every one around how we feel. Except I think some people would think that since he so much older than I am that nothing would ever come of it. He says things to me now that when my divorce is final I will want to go find some young guy I can marry. But the truth the age difference is what makes it even more appealing. I like the thought of him taking care of me. I actually like it when he tells me what to do. I am a very independent person who every one would think is so professional and yet I would do about anything to get him to say "good girl" to me. I know my friends would be so insulted and would find that demeaning, but I would be happy for him to have total control of me. Yes, I know that's crazy and I wouldn't like it for long, but I'm just being honest. But of course I wouldn't feel that way, if he hadn't been the most wonderful, kind, generous, sensitive, caring person I have ever known. He is constantly doing things both big and small that shows how much he cares. If I ever mention that I like something he never forgets and will try to do that for me. Just simple things.
But then I am wondering why if he was that way with his wife things are not good between them. He was probably a total jerk to her. And he is so kind to my children and always thinking of things they would like, but he doesn't seem as close to his kids. He says it is because they are boys and they don't feel close to him, they prefer their mother and exclude him from things. (Like I wanted to make a big deal of his birthday, and he said that none of his family did, but who knows if that's true and also I don't know if it's cultural ) I have to be more assertive with him. I am always giving myself deadlines to end the inappropriate part of our relationship (yes I am crazy enough to think I can be "just friends" with him) but they come and go. At some point I will have to say, "if you are ever available, let me know. Because I adore you and I will be miserable without you, but I have to have some self respect not to play second (actually 3rd behind his wife and work) although there have never been any times where I ever felt he put her ahead of me, but still. I also have to end it because religously it makes me a nervous wreck thinking I am doing something so wrong, and of course I can never get away from the fact that it is wrong simply because he is some else's husband. How could I do something so awful to someone?? My own father had affairs and I hated him for it (I love him hated what he did) and hated the girlfriend even more!
But of course when we discuss this we both see why what we are doing is not as bad as what my dad did! it's crazy! Oh, what I would do to be in his wife's position. And it makes me crazy thinking that she has it and from what he says doesn't want it. I know I don't get the real story, but from my view, if I were her I would be so good to him.
Thank you for replying to my crazy questions. It really does help so much to talk to some one else in the same situation. What is it about the men you love that make them so incredible? I can't imagine ever finding some one like him again! Is that how you feel?
| By Anonymous#1 on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 10:36 pm: |
To Lisa:
I found your story and i had read it previously on one of the days I was in despair and looking for some one to talk to about my situation. It broke my heart. But what has happened since February, where those posts end? Is he still with his wife? Are you still waiting? I do see that your situation is different in that the wife had full knowledge of everything before. She knew what she was getting into. I think I would really have some bad feelings toward her. it is hard enough to for me with this wife who is totally not at fault, to still not have feelings of resentment. But I know she is the only one who has right to HATE ME! But you had him first, how could she have gone through with the marriage? And was she already in love with him before they married or was she even close to him?
| By Lisa on Thursday, March 30, 2000 - 04:39 am: |
Well Anonymous 1:
I'm sorry that this is hurting you so much. I totally understand. I have been doing well since February. First of all, with the help from the discussion board and from a very caring friend to listen and gently guide me,I have come to realize that the situation was hopeless. If he wanted to be with me he would have taken the proper steps, end of story. This has taken me a long time to understand. He is responsible for his life, not his wife, not me only him. I have no ill feelings towards her. She was promised to him and went along with the marriage. If he didn't want it he should not have gone through with it. It doesn't matter what culture a person comes from, if someone wants something they will get it. I just think now that he just didn't see that the effort was really worth it for him. Yes, this realization did hurt me but it is true. I figured it out by placing myself in his shoes. I realized that I would have done anything in the world to be with him. That is what true love is. Love is totally giving of yourself to a person without being selfish. He was being selfish because he was pleasing and fulfilling a family obligation and finding happiness in me at the same time, eventhough it was slowly killing me inside. That is not love. If he could watch my pain which was so raw and exposed and continue with his marriage and try to give me hope then his interests were really not with me at all. I would not do that to him, ever. I hope this helps you a little. I'm telling you Anonymous 1 it wasn't easy to figure this out. Maybe your situation is different but please think hard about what you are doing. Talk to a friend that you can count on to listen to you and not be too judgemental. Someone that you trust and that is smart. Don't look at it as a Cultural thing look at him as a man. I hope I am of some help to you. Keep in touch.
Lisa
| By Anonymous #1 on Friday, March 31, 2000 - 12:02 am: |
Lisa,
How long has it been since you talked to him? I have come to the point where I do not allow myself to call him (unless it is something totally necessary concerning some of the business type stuff we are involved in), I wait for him to call me. But the moment I hear his voice, I am so happy to hear from him. He knows how I feel about this being wrong and he will sometimes say things about me not wanting to talk to him. but of course I want to talk to him. He does live in another city about an hour and a half away, so I don't get to see him as often. I am sure it is better that he lives away. If he were right here in the same city, I would never be able to stay away from him. The moment I see him I am ecstatic.
How is your former boyfriend handling not being with you? That is one of the things that bothers me the most - if I end it I will feel so bad that I let it go this far because I will feel terrilbe if he is hurt, which I really believe he would be. I may be going to his city tomorrow, but I am trying to make myself take some other people with me so that I won't be alone with him! But he will be wonderful to everyone anyway.
I just can't confide in anyone, because I can't let them know I have done something so wrong. My sister has an idea of how I feel about him, but she would never dream that we have actually become involved. She would never believe I would do that. I feel like such a fake! I would be telling anyone else what a terrible immoral person they were, that they were just being selfish, that they do not have the option of loving somebody who is married no matter what the circumstances.
But he is so wonderful. I love him so much it hurts! It would be bad enough just being away from him because of the distance, but I have to be realistic that I can never have him. But he really did make me believe before that I could eventually have him. He started all of this. He would say things like "don't you wish you were married to me" and I would tell him no because after he was around me for long I would drive him crazy, religious differences, etc. And that would upset him that I wouldn't say I wanted to marry him. And he would always tell me what he would do if he were married to me. But now it is different.
Has your boyfriend tried to stay in contact with you? Is he upset?
Thanks for your help.
| By Lisa on Saturday, April 01, 2000 - 01:28 am: |
Although we live about 5km apart, we don't run into each other. I have no idea how he feels but I'm sure he is fine. He made the choice so he must live with the consequences. I was the foolish one for hoping he would be free to be with me.
| By Anonymous #1 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 07:59 pm: |
Lisa,
Isn't it crazy how something as simple as this message board can help you see things more clearly! I know it is helping me to a certain extent. I saw him on Friday when I had to go to his city. He spent some time with me, but nothing compared to what he would have before. I know he truly is very busy with his company, but I had to go to a meeting after I saw him which involved some of his interests and there was some very important information I needed to let him know and I called his office for several hours all evening and he was not there. That has happened more lately, and I am beginning to face the fact that even though he has been busy with work, the main reason he has not spent as much time with me lately probably has to do with his wife. And I am so stupid that I never confront him about it. If he has any relationship what so ever with his wife, then I am done. And it was probably incredibly stupid for me to have believed him from the beginning. But it was so convincing, he would be constant companion at that time. He looked for any excuse for us to be together.
He would take days and go on trips to any meetings, etc. that I would be at.
But of course when I saw him on Friday, I was so thrilled to be with him. I did not want to do or say anything that would waste the little bit of time I had with him. But why when I talked to him on Saturday, when he finally returned the messages I left (that were important to him), why didn't I say why are you just calling on Saturday afternoon from messages left from 8:00 p.m. on Friday. He is usually always at his office all night. I guess it's pretty plain for everyone else to see. It's like when I'm typing this I am realizing all the things that have happened recently!
I am beginning to wonder if there are any good men anywhere? Indian or American or from anywhere else!
I guess I have never met any of them. I am such a fool! I started writing at this message board because I couldn't understand his intentions, and I was wondering about the whole arranged marriage thing and Indian culture, and it seeming like it was OK with his wife that he had found somebody he loved since there was nothing between them. And it probably had very little to do with that. He is probably just like any other man looking for an affair. But it doesn't make sense because if he was just looking for an affair, he could have found somebody who would have given in much sooner and easier than I did and he also could have found somebody much more attractive. He has been so convincing. He made me feel like the center of the universe, he has done so many thoughtful things that most men would never think of, and from the beginning of the friendship told me he will love me for ever, no matter what happens, even if we never see each other. but you know lately it is always me telling him how much I love him (which took me almost a year to do) and he rarely says it to me anymore.
I have to get up the strength to end this, I know. I am sure there are many people reading this who will be able to tell me from their own experience how hopeless this is. Why did I let this happen?
| By Anonymous#1 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 08:05 pm: |
Standing,
How are things going with you? Any progress?
| By Anonymous #1 on Monday, April 03, 2000 - 08:27 pm: |
To Lisa,
One other question? What do you think would happen if you did run into him?
I guess I am crazy enough to think that I can still remain friends with him and remain involved in the business stuff where we first became friends and just end the romance part of it. I know it will be easier because he lives in another city. And I could arrange it so that we only saw each other when other people were around in these business situations.
| By Lisa on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 04:23 am: |
Anonymous 1:
I thought pretty much the same things that you did about these men from India and Pakistan. After some time, I realized people are all individuals. Some have integrity, some are strong. We are all individuals and a group cannot be clumped according to their culture. If a man decides to have a mistress it doesn't matter where they come from they are not good men.
I was very naive about it all and I think that is what he sensed in me. You are probably a very warm, caring and loving person and that is what he was drawn to. He, however has no right to even suggest anything with a woman since he is married. You are not. Stop blaming yourself and start doing something about it. Start asking him some of the things that have been bothering you. Let him do the talking and you just listen. See what he says and you will see his intentions yourself. Really think about the way he answers your questions and then find a place at home to analyze his answers. Ask him what you want, you have nothing at all to lose at this point. I think his true colours will certainly come out and you will see that he is a very weak man after all. A strong willful man with integrity would not do to you and to his wife what he has done. As for are all men that way. Of course not. I am lucky I have found many strong, sensitive and loving men in my life. Once you let go of him you will find a strong loving man in your life too. Someone that deserves your love freely. Give it a chance.
| By Phawn on Tuesday, April 04, 2000 - 10:54 pm: |
HI,
What are the chances of East Asian and South Asian (Indian) marriages and lifestyles?? My boyfriend is Indian and I am Vietnamese. His group of friends seem very diverse and are from different cultures. 7 mths and he has not really told his parents about me yet. They are trying to set up an arranged marriage for him now -- maybe also b/c his past relationships (from different cultures) were unsuccessful. Any thoughts?!
| By Leena on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 09:23 pm: |
Hi Phawn, and welcome!
Tell us a little bit more about yourself and your situation...do his parents know you as a friend, how do you guys feel about each other, etc....it's hard to say without knowing each person's individual situation.
| By Anonymous#1 on Wednesday, April 05, 2000 - 10:17 pm: |
To Standing:
How are things for you? What has happened with the ultimatum you gave your boyfriend? I want to be able to get up the nerve to do something similar. I know it will have to be on the phone, because if I am with him in person, I will melt, and I'll be so happy to be with him that I won't want to ruin any of the time. But I want to just say, "you know how much I love you, but I am really beginning to wonder if the situation with your wife is as you said it was, and if it's not then there is no way I am going to cause problems if there is a chance things could be oK, but in any case I can't take the immorality of what I am doing. So if you are ever available, let me know. But I can't keep doing this." I used to think that he wouldn't be able to handle that and he would probably say "no, you are not ending this." But now I wonder if he would. I think what would bother him the most is worrying that because of my divorce then I would find another man. He does seem to be jealous sometimes. But then I won't feel that I told him to go get a divorce, but I will let him know that if that happens I would do anything to be with him then.
Of course, I am hoping to hear that everything turned out beautifully for you, which will give me some hope that someday there will be any chance for us.
I am going crazy! I know that the fact that this was an arranged marriage is what has allowed my conscience to get involved in this. But it was an arranged marriage from 25 years and a few children ago, so I know that it is no diffent than any other marriage, and it is just as wrong for me.
But does anybody else have any input about divorce in Indians who have lived in the US for years. I just don't understand when he doesn't really seem to be socially involved with the members of his family that are here or other Indians. Because all he does is work! But again, the situation is probably different than what he has made it seem to me. But can anybody explain to me the pressure he might feel concerning his culture and getting a divorce?
| By prasad on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 12:50 am: |
My brother-in-law, born in India, educated in USA, US citizen for more than 20 years took his US born and US educated son to India three times. Looking for bride for his son, just like he did for himself about 30 years ago.
Towards the end of his most recent, 3rd visit, 3 days before returning back to US, they "found" a girl of their liking. My brother-in-law and his family were afraid of returning empty handed 3rd time. They had "found" this "gem" just three days before returning. They were happy.
The girl and her family were hesitant of sending the girl to US. This family stayed up whole night discussing the good and bad of sending the girl to US. This girl is Engineer studying computer programming in India. The boy has MS in computer field from a very prestigious university in USA.
Anyway, after whole night of discussion the girl's family brought "proposal" to the boy's family. They agreed. Announced engagement. Had big party the next day. The day after the party, the boy's family returned back to US with photographs to show off in US.
Guess what, the girl's family were still discussing the good and bad of sending the girl to USA. After a week of further mulling over, both families called off the engagement.
Looking back, it was good that the engagement was called off. Otherwise both the girl and boy would have been misrable their whole life. At the same time both families should have sensed the hesitation early on.
Why was it necessary for them to go all the way to India when there are lot of Indian families in USA from their own religion and language. The boy is not getting any younger. Indian families tend to marry off their daughters before they pass the "marriage age". Boy and his family are getting desparate, all good picks are gone. They are worrying: what will people think, is there something wrong with the boy ?
You know the thought process among Indian families that wanted to marry their daughters to this boy. Aha, our daughter was not good enough for them, now lets see what type of girl you gonna find !!!
Tell me what you think.
| By Standing on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 06:13 pm: |
Anonymous #1,
Nothing has changed yet. I'm afraid my situation is a little different from yours in some ways that are probably critical at this point. Plus, it sounds like you've been through quite a bit already with your prior marriage.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get much information about divorce. But I would guess that your significant other feels torn between the obligation to his wife and his love for you. Remember, he didn't get married because of love. So, is it really fair to end it because of love? Especially when his wife is older? Divorced women used to fair very poorly in India as did widows. For example, widows had to wear white all the time--which in a culture that loves bright colors says quite a bit. I'm told it's getting better, but this usually comes from Indian women who are sympathetic to my situation.
I try to look at my situation that my boyfriend and I have enriched and permanently changed each others lives no matter what happens. If he makes a decision to stay in his situation, I will accept that and ultimately find the path that's been destined for me.
Good luck to you!
(Prasat, I know plenty of wonderful Indian women in their late 20s and 30s who would love to meet a nice Indian guy...perhaps less attention should be paid to the resumes and more to the chemistry!)
| By Phawn on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 07:16 pm: |
Hi Leena,
How are you? Me and my honey are in love indeed. We do talk about having a family together and the future and all. He's in the Marines right now and has less than 3 more years to go. I'm a college grad and just working now. No, his parents have never met me in person. He says his parents know of me but I guess they presume it's just another phase he's going thru.
Even tho I know it's a tradition and all, his parents have lived here for a while and are well-educated people. Which means although they will hate the idea of their only son marrying outside the race, in time, I believe they will accept it no matter what. His last ex-gf was also of Eastern Asian decent and he said he was going to marry her anyways too. RIght now, I think he doesn't want to cause a big stir with his parents right now and trying to be on their good side too. He did mess up before with girls in the past so they are just looking out for his best interest (so they say sometimes).
I guess I wanted to hear that I would have a better chance than a non-Asian person would. But I see that even religion and subclasses within the Indian caste makes it difficult as well no matter if you're from Indian descent or not. I sure do hope that in time your country's culture and attitude towards love and sexuality changes for the well-being of us all. Even here in AMerica, it feels like you are still imprisoned in your own mind and body w/out freedom to express it openly. It has to be done secretly or be forever shunned from your own community.
Things will work out in the end if you have the determination and will to change it all. Take care friends.
| By Stop It on Thursday, April 06, 2000 - 09:30 pm: |
Hi, I just got engaged recently in a smei-arranged way. We do see each other and talk on the phone