| By Feeling Afraid on Tuesday, January 12, 1999 - 08:39 pm: |
I first have to say that this is a wonderful newsgroup and after reading a bunch of submisisions I was also compelled to write a brief opinion on this topic.
I am a US born and raised Indian female physician who has maintained her Indian heritage. I recently got married about 5 months ago to a fellow schoolmate that I knew as a friend for about 3 years before we got engaged.
Initially, we were good friends but soon developed into a relationship. I come from a northern background where he is gujurati. He was born in India and has been in the US for about 15 years.
We had our realizations that we are coming from two different backgrounds and THOUGHT we could overcome that being busy professionals. However, that wasn't the case. After numerous verbal and physical episodes, related to persistent expectations from his family.....I left him.
Being away from him,I realized that love does not conquer all and familial compatibility is soooo
important. I felt as though I was losing all my identity and that even though I was living in America I had to live the life of a traditional "bahu" (ie. daughter-in-law)---mostly to satisfy his parents expectations.
I am scared of my fate and what will ever happen to me and whether I will ever find someone who loves me and not a preconceived image of what a wife should be. Divorce may be eminent, but living as an Indian in America we have too many societal expectaions to succeed in everything...including marriage. This is my biggest fear. How will I be accepted, save face, and eventually be married? All my life I dreamed
of being in love and happily married to someone who is caring, protective, and nurturing....but those dreams were shattered....
I just want some feedback from people who may have similar situations and words of support.
thanks
Feeling Afraid
| By PK on Tuesday, January 12, 1999 - 09:19 pm: |
Dear Feeling Afraid
You are not the only one, who is troubled by an otherwise 'nice' partner; but 'totally lost' with his/her family, parents and other filial relations. This is one of the major causes of tensions, stress, breaking of marriages in most part of the world but specially in India for our mythological obeyance to parents which goes beyond the normal respect and crosses the limits of parental 'guidance' in the post-marriage relation with their kids. Extra guidance and rather over expectation, manipulative intervention can actually become a nuisance and HURTS the partners.
This does not mean that we should not respect our parents or family BUT there must BE Limits and and one should draw a LINE at a certain level.
Ok in your case, you are affronted with a person with lower self-esteem and with overly kidnapped personality by overly possessive parents.
I have heard so many of similar episodes, that it appears to be the same theme and curiously this has been depicted very subtely in some of our better movies of 60s and 70s.
The man or woman, who can not fully develop their personality can fall victim to such 'careless' and exploitative parents and in fact this is suicidal for anybody whereby giving secondary importance to their spouse over his past filial relations - and he/she is doomed to destroy the relation with the spouse. Whatever we say, a spouse is the other pillar of marriage and by decreasing her/him to demeaning levels - is a shameless act of cowardice.
Feeling! You have to analyse and try to find alternatives. Have you tried to move with his mutual consent to another city or state? Have you tried to show him his weakness and his extra-weight on his parents?
Well if you have reached to a level where you cant return - you have to make it clear that you are not committing any kind of misdemeaner or crime nor you are ruining your life.
In fact, if you have had a history of repetitive abuse, it will go on as to change anybody's nature in a life time is IMPOSSIBLE.
We can only change ourselves and change our viewpoint and attitude but we hardly can alter anyone else even he/she says that they love.
Physical attraction or 'convenient love' has no impact on marriage as marriage is beyond love - it is a much more serious commitment and marriage does have some unspoken rules. Love can not fix a marriage when third parties are interevening. Possibly sacrifice can.
You need not be afraid at all nor even feel in that direction. Life is what we want out of it.
Living in the US can help a bit where you are not hurt by stupid comments etc of people known.
You should consider your relation as a failure but the failure caused by circumstances beyond your control so you are not to be blamed. You will find someone caring if you really decide to find that person. You actually gain experience and learn from a failed relation and this gain can actually be the guiding force for your other relation. JUST MAKE yourself free from negative thoughts and you will come out of this emotive mess. Read a book called "Awaken the Giant within" by Anthony Robbins - available in any bookstore.
Your fears are based on unknown and insecurity.
Be strong and steer clear of these fears by being realistic and secure. You will make it.
| By Bridge_the_Gap on Wednesday, January 13, 1999 - 02:22 am: |
Dear Feeling Afraid,
Very true and real..your situation is !!
I have been there and I am still facing it..What you are afraid of is not fake..But keep up the self esteem and don't let this society dominate how you should live your life. There are very few people around who are willing to share your bad days and provide words of support.
I was divorced last year and it took lot from me to face the reality. It is so interesting to discover that Indian society in U.S. is so backwards (not all of them). Divorced people are not considered the same..and it is automatically assumed that there is something wrong. I came to U.S. eleven years ago and was pleased to see that I am surrounded by well educated Indian people. My expectations and dreams were shattered when I realized that same educated people are molded so thick in old/unfair traditions and perceptions.
It is important to know that marriage is a gamble. No matter how you look at it, it is difficult. I got married with some dreams myself and it was shattered like a piece of glass during my divorce. It took me a while before I could put myself together again but I am quite positive I will find my love. We all are young and have a life ahead of us. Perhaps, the only difference between you and me is that I am a male, but, trust me..people regardless of their gender go through the same. And, of course, it hurts you when the definition of marriage in your mind is pure and then, shattered by the word "divorce"..
Don't be afraid..this is tough..but time is best remedy..you will get over it and don't be afraid of the society..
I am not sure if you understand Hindi..but if you do, listen to this song..
Kuch to log kahenge, logo ka kaam hi kehna..(Film Amar Prem..)
Take care !!
| By Feeling Afraid on Wednesday, January 13, 1999 - 10:35 pm: |
I came back to see any words advice from those who
could relate to my situation. The advice I found was truly inspiring.
The sad thing is that in this whole separation/ divorce process-- we may gain the relief of being
away an abusive relationship.....but we lose sooo
much confidence.
Before I got married... I was a jovial, bubbly person who loved the company of friends and loved spontaneity. But now I feel like that person died .
I don't know what I am , who I am, my beliefs, etc. I feel as though I am going through an identity crisis. My husband put this in my head,
because I failed him ....and he failed me.
When will I ever know and realize another man that
I might want to spend my life with. I feel as though I am very comprimising, as long as I see the validity of a point. But I can say the reason
that my marriage didn't work out because of family
mismatch.(his family and my family live only 1 1/2
away from each other)
How can I screen this again?
Feeling Afraid
| By Bridge_the_Gap on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 03:15 am: |
Each one of us change over time. With age, experience, and circumstances, all of us bound to change. Look at this way that every change is for good. I was very outgoing and jolly kind of person before my divorce and in fact, before my marriage. My divorce has changed me a lot. However, I always want to go back and do things that I used to do. However, people's perception has changed over time, and I, myself, have changed. Sometimes, it is clear to me that what I used to do few years ago is not possible but worth a try. I don't know what I am saying is making sense or not..I guess the bottom line, let us just accept the change with existing circumstances and make best use of it. I believe in Hindu philosphy " Whatever has to happen will happen, do your best and leave everything else to GOD".
| By Joseph on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 05:26 pm: |
Regarding Parent's meddling in couple's daily lives.
No child has ever escaped from this behavior! The extent and degree may be different in individual cases, but it is there, and will be there. May be as a parent we do not know when to let go, or may be as a parent we think that it our God given right to do that! Either way, if it is not handled tactfully, results can be devastating.
It's my opinion that after marriage, you and your spouse are "THE family", and the rest are "relatives". Why? Because when you decided to spend rest of your life with your spouse, you decided to start your own, separate life as husband and wife, different frmm son and daughter - A Life which includes plans and dreams defined to gather, something you can call your own and be proud of. So isn't it better to built your life between you two the way you want and not because someone says so? Your life with your parents still is as important and unique but remains different life. Somehow, parents needs to be made aware of that.
One of the effective way to give this message to parents firmly and yet politely is whenever the situation of conflicts arises between you and your parents, first listen to what they have to say, and than start out your response with "we both have discussed it to gather and decided that……". This statement not only tells your parents that it has been already decided but there is some thinking involved before the decision was made. Of course you will find a rebuttal " well this is our custom for centuries…… or we are talking from experience….. etc. But guess what, this is your life and even if you make mistake, you will not regret but rather learn from it. Stay away from diplomatic answers. Avoiding situations because of fear of hurting parent's feelings can become costly mistakes.
Compatibility of views on "Family involvement after marriage" is worth considering when looking for the mate.
To feeling Afraid, it is unfortunate to see that your marriage ended on a difference which is reconcilable. Was marriage counseling an option before you two made the decision? And if it was, why it remained irreconcilable?
Like any sad event in life, you will have to give your self a little time, a grieving period if you may call it, but also try to get out of this phase by staying around people (divorce support groups are excellent choice)and focus on to the future, no matter how unclear it may seem now. :)
| By Feeling Afraid on Friday, January 15, 1999 - 04:27 am: |
In Response to Joseph
you see, I am not anti-family...but when you factor in the fact that both sides live in driving distance to each other and the fact that we are both resident physicians....we have alot of stress in our lives.
In actuality my parents are very liberal and yet conservative ....where as his is very conservative and ritualistic and toooo family oriented. My husband does not have any friends ands say that "why do I need friends when my brothers are my best friends..."
He wants me to assimilate into his family without
any problem.. Where as I feel that I am constantly being examined like a specimen under a microscope. He says "why can't you be the way you are with your friends with my family." He doesn't understand- that being a Indian woman (ie wife) the boys family always looks for something wrong. In result the family complains to their son, that your wife " is this, does that" etc. I have just become frustrated. He doesn't seem to realize that he is imposing the "double standard" on me and doesn't respect my own opinion. He puts his family's opinion before me. The funny thing is that before we got married he said " I am 100% in your favor" ...now that we 're married- he reverted back to his norm. Maybe because the courtship is now over.
I have had past relationships which were short.....but he never had a gf . I was his first gf, first love, and I guess now- his first wife.
You asked if we went to counseling.....We went to 3 sessions (after he broke my nose)...and I realized that he wasn't going there to benefit us-- but rather to just let steam off and vent. Nothing therapeutic came out of it.
Its really a shame....But I have lost faith.
Feeling Afraid
| By Joseph on Friday, January 15, 1999 - 05:42 pm: |
To feeling Afraid,
Your emotions are very real, but do not loose faith. In your heart you know that you have tried all possible avenues to make this marriage work. The pain, sorrow, and fear you are experiencing are temporary and still better option than to remain in abusive relationship. It may be difficult in short term, but you still have your life ahead of you. Marriages do happen after divorce, even in culture like ours. A friend of ours had a brief and abusive marriage decided to end it, went back to school and earned two more degrees, climbed back up in her personal and social life, and ten years after her first marriage, she got married again and has 2 year old daughter. What I am trying to say is, you will climb back up and in the process you will realize that there are men out there who can make you happy in marriage. Unfortunately it takes time, longer for some, shorter for some.
I get the impression that you are currently separated waiting for the legal proceedings. I hope this reality has made him think from a different angle. May be during this period he might realize that by being logical and rational, he can change his perception of life after marriage. After all, he seems to be throwing away his life for the reasons he can easily correct.
| By Lovelessly Married on Saturday, January 16, 1999 - 02:18 am: |
Hi, everyone on the net. Very good forum - and I don't know if this truly belongs here. My situation is as follows: I and my wife truly loved each other before we got married and after we got married. However, over a period (we are married for 3 years now) unknowingly we made so many mistakes - small ones, such as me saving money, she spending, etc. - these differences finally added up and we sort of lost our feelings for each other. However, when I realized this, I looked at our past, at our beautiful romance, and I got my loving feelings back. However, my wife simply could not get her loving feelings for me - though she has been trying for the past 6 months or so! We both are very decent and good people - we both know that! But life has become hell since love has been only one-sided lately, however hard my wife wants to love me. We are thinking of trying a separation and hope that she gets back her feelings. Marriage counselling did not help. Any suggestions ? Any thoughts ?
| By Pk on Wednesday, March 17, 1999 - 08:03 pm: |
Lovelessly married
2 months have passed. Please write how did you deal with the situation of conflict.
One thing you must know is that Money, Religions and politics and similar issues must be separated from love and marriage as these are very inflammabble materials. Love and marriage require the complete trust, complete understanding of each other but to reach that point, one has to know the partner profoundly.
| By Recovering slowly on Friday, April 23, 1999 - 05:03 pm: |
Dear Feeling Afraid,
It is amazing how similar our two stories are. If someone who knew me read your story, he/she would say that it is mine. I too underwent everything for a year and finally ended up leaving my husband and getting a divorce. It was even more difficult to do since my family is in India and therefore the pressure against divorce was even more pronounced. But I had to do it. There is no way that I could have lived the life I was being made to lead. You are also right in saying that it is very frustrating to find yourself feeling weak and not so self-confident and a person that is completely different. I found myself performing at a level that was way below my capabilities and that is very frustrating. But a year later things are improving. I am dating someone else who is very nice and so you see that is possible.
The process of rediscovering your old self is very slow and painful, but you do get there.
Keep hope, make friends, enjoy life and all will work out.
| By faan on Sunday, April 25, 1999 - 08:58 am: |
Dear ms feeling afraid,
first of all i do not like your name. my God, you are supposed to be a grown up woman.i am myself a female physician from Pakistan. i got (of course arranged)married to another Pakistani doctor.He however ,cheated on me ,and being a normal human being ,i sought divorce from him.At that time ,i was in Pakistan ,and that was going to be THE first divorce in my family. and yeah, at that time ,i did kind of felt the way you are doing now,believe me ,there always is a bright side to every picture.i got anorectic and lost over 16 lbs .so enjoy it while it lasts.i assure you ,every body survives and ,although i have not married yet ,but its my own choice and i feel p.contented with my life.atleast i have my self esteem with me which is so very important to me and i believe its imp to you too ,else you would be amongst thousands of "sati savatris" who endure every nonsense w/o bringing a word of complaint at their mouth.i call them dumb rather than mute.you have proved your enormous self worth ,now dont try to reduce it by dwelling too much on the all negative aftermaths of what you have done. concentrate on your work,have fun .that guy does not deserve to be in your thoughts any more.keep room empty ,some one else might be knocking at the door soon
| By Robert on Monday, April 26, 1999 - 02:02 am: |
Dear Feeling Afraid,
My dear lady, remember these words...
"The Past Does Not Equal The Future"!
You are not to blame, it's not your fault.
A relationship should be a place where you go to
give of yourselæ and your heart and soul, and
never a place to go and take from.
Dont think of all the (bad)things, think of it
as a way that empowers you. Look what you have
learned from this, this is a treasure of lifes
ups and downs that you can use to guide you
through the pathways of love. You sound very
kind and sweet, so dont cheat yourself out of
all the joys life has to offer. If you need to
talk, I am here for yïu.
You are never alone, ok?
Take Care...
Robert.. :-)
| By Anonymous on Sunday, May 02, 1999 - 01:19 pm: |
Dear Feeling Afraid,
There is something here that no one has dicussed. Your spuoce is very insecure person.He has problem accepting the fact that he has married an educated girl who is mature and knows to think for herself.If he wanted a girl like his mother,they are available through an arranged marriage system in India. He should have followed that course,but may have made his and her life even more miserable. Every child grows up watching his own parents and dreams about not reapeting the parent's problem in his or her own life. My guess is either you are the daughter of a very dominating father or your husband is the son of a tough mother. I can guess his mother is not in harmony with his father and you mother-in law is totally out of control and has to grow up.Sorry, you have married someone whose mother is still growing.
| By Bhima Patel on Monday, May 10, 1999 - 08:57 am: |
Dear feeling afraid,
Do you really want to end a marriage, that you commited too? I am not married but unlike your husband I would not lie about what I expected from a wife and if the woman doesn't like that I wouldn't marry her. So I guess I would not end up in the same situation as you and your husband are in. Since you don't have kids if you wanna abandon the guy do it now. He shouldn't have married you in the first place, if he has a decent income he can easily find some good Indian woman back in India that wouldn't mind being a housewife. Your husband must have been a pretty faithful guy to marry his first and only girlfriend. But remember if you go for the longhaul you know that eventually your inlaws will die. By the way Robert remember my words, the past shapes the future, right now its the present and in the future it will be the past.
Feeling afraid so if you wanna jet do it before you got kids, the kids are more important than either yours or your husbands happiness.
| By Sofia on Tuesday, May 11, 1999 - 06:09 pm: |
I am also in a bind like feeling afraid, but not quiet as far in the dilemna. My husband(Amrican) and I (Desi) got married and have 3 young kids. However, now that we are doing financially well, his parents( more his mother) seem to want him back. Since I am a successful computer professional and so is my husband, I could ignore anything she did. Only now my eldest daughter turned 5 and I asked them to respect my religion and that I want my daughter to be a muslim. My husband was a Baptist but converted to Islam a year before we got married. So now they do things that bug me to death and it is causing the words divorce to come up in my fights with my husband. Examples are: they tell her about Jesus being God and that is against the Islamic belief, they have just now started saying GRACE before meals at their house and they hold my kids hands so that the kids say it too. They are making up christian rituals and have added a nursery to their house with toys and cute linens and bible realted story books.
My husband gets mad(justifiably)when I attack his mother in our fights , but I dont like what they are teaching my kids and I thought my husband and I had an understanding when we got married as muslims. He has so far not sided with them, but also does not stand up to them and say that they better accept his sons family is muslim.My husband has done well as a muslim dad where our kids go to Sunday school at the mosque, and all is fine (at least workable) until his mother started this religious thing...and she has never been a religious person until now that my kids are growing up.
Please Help.
| By Princess on Tuesday, May 11, 1999 - 08:19 pm: |
Sofia,
Don't divorce your husband or punish him for what your mother-in-law is doing. Punish your mother-in-law. It's not his fault that she's being spiteful and trying to cause confusing in your children's mind. You are the mother of these children. Take your stand and do what you feel is right for them.
If you want to raise them muslim so be it. But do understand that the childern's grandmother is of a different faith and you must teach them tolerance and difference because they are going to grow up with this grandmother around. There is nothing wrong with saying grace at the table (even if she just started the practice) as long as you teach your children that it is something done in her faith. As adults they will be faced with a lot of different religions. Don't raise them so rigid that they will be confused. You must teach them tolerance and I'm sure there would be someone religious at your mosque that would help you in these conflicts and how to teach perseverance and tolerance.
The issue here isn't your husband it's the mother-in-law. You are in the marriage together and parents first and if the choice you made to raise your children was muslim then do that. Decide on how you are going to do it together. It's hard I'm sure for your husband to go against his mother but instead of lashing out at him and picking a fight state your fears and insults intelligently and sit him down and explain it to him.
Also perhaps you and your husband should sit down with your mother-in-law and explain to her that you are trying to raise your children muslim and that she should respect it. Perhaps if you say it to her straight without beating around the bush she will listen. If she doesn't then she's being spiteful and your husband will see that.
Good luck!
| By Anonymous on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 06:11 am: |
Feeling Afraid, you are not alone. Marriage is something that takes work on both sides - not just the two individuals involved but often also their friends/family etc. Regardless of what one might say about the magic between the partners, societal and familial obligations get in the way.
My experience is however, that 'focus, focus, focus' on the relationship at hand (the one with your spouse and not the ones with his/her family) is the key to success. Unfortunately I have seen too many people who forget this simple truth.
The good news is that you are a young, capable professional who is in a country where divorce is accepted. You will do fine. Good luck to you.
| By artist on Friday, August 11, 2000 - 08:36 pm: |
hello im artist i have been given divorce in july 2000 and i feel so depressed.its eastren girls thinking .he was a psychopath thats why its not possible for me to saty with him and divorced me.i feel very upset tell me how to have good hopes.