| By nancy on Thursday, July 08, 1999 - 01:21 am: |
hello rayna if you read my last post you will see that i did not mean to imply that at all.I am sorry if anyone felt offended.
| By Anonymous on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 03:30 am: |
dear iamongu,
have you yet come to an understanding about sex with you wife yet? i really don't think though that you should ever consider infidelity. that's what scum do. anyways you must work it out with your wife!!! i think most of all you should make her feel comfortable and at ease about the subject...
dear nancy,
i know you didn't mean to imply anything by it..hehe..but what do you mean by the last sentence on your june 25 post?
| By Aman Khera on Wednesday, July 14, 1999 - 11:24 pm: |
I am happily married for last 11 yrs,but I started to see boredom about 4 years ago in sex life,I started to lose intrest in sex till I met this guy who is also married and is my husband's friend.I never belived in extra martial sexual relationship,but it happened one day when he came to see my husband and I was home alone getting ready to take shower,I accidently opened the door presuming it was my husband,well it happened right there and after that it is a total bliss and we both love it .It is healthy relationship which has changed our lives and we both can concentrate better in our lives.It can happen to anyone at any age.Love and physical satisfacion are two different things.
| By Rayna on Wednesday, July 14, 1999 - 11:40 pm: |
Aman Khera
Are you trying to stand up for extra-marital affairs???
Also thnk this...since you cheated and your husband does not know it..you are feeling great! Tell me how would you feel if you came to know that your husband had cheated on you??? Would you still feel great????
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, July 22, 1999 - 10:18 pm: |
Aman Khera,
I think it's a wrong statement that it can happen to anyone. I guess it happens to people due to lack of respect and love for their partners or it happens to ignorant people who don't realize how it would affect their relationship if their partners knew it. You said that you were about to take a shower when he came to see your husband. In other words, you were almost naked. I don't care if there is naked woman in front of me. If I have enough respect and love (which I do) for my partner, I won't commit adultery.
Also, what are trying to say here? Are you saying that it's OK to have an affair and it just happens? Don't you think you are sending a wrong message to readers?
You are probably right that it can happen at any age. But, I think it depends upon an individual's personality and moral values. You probably think that it's bliss and you think it's OK as long as your husband and his wife don't find out. But, the fact is that people who really love their partners don't do it even if their partners can't find out. If you really love him, everything that might hurt him must hurt you.
Also, you have been married for 11 years. Do you have any children? What are you going to teach them? Are you going to teach them that it's OK to have an affair if they are not satisfied with their partners and hide it or are you going to teach them that they should talk to their spouse if there is problem with their sexual life?
Take care
| By AMAN KHERA on Friday, July 23, 1999 - 08:25 am: |
To JAT PUNJABI,
I just want to say that what ever is between me and the person I am having sexual relationship is the perfect sexual bliss,which has nothing to do with me being married,since I am also from Jat family I know how our marriages are!,they are arranged,never asked girls about their choice,Jat husbands are over protective and taught from their childhood to treat their wives as lower than other members of family from husband's side.Bottom line is false pride is more important in our Jat families than the sexual bliss or affection and love.I am not sending any message to any kids including mine to have affair after marriage but trying to tell that there is a difference between marriage and love.Marriages can be arranged but love and sexual bliss has no bounds and I feel very comfortble with it and planning to have it rest of my life.
| By Jat Punjabi on Friday, July 23, 1999 - 07:20 pm: |
Hello Aman Khera,
I can tell from your last name that you are a Jat. In fact, I can probably tell which village your family is from. But, anyway, the arranged marriage has been a major part of Indian life, not just Jat families. It looks like you are trying to blame arranged marriage system and Jat husband for your own actions. You got married only 11 years ago. I don't think Indian community was much different 11 years ago anywhere in the world. I am not sure under what circumstances you got married. But, my understanding is that nowadays, both the guy and the gal are asked whether or not they like each other. I went to India two years ago and married someone I had known only for one day. Luckily, we are getting along great. Is it really luck or maturity and mutual understanding? I am not sure. We had some cultural differences in beginning. But, now she understands that if I say 'hi' to some lady, it doesn't mean I am trying to have an affair with her. My wife's parents looked around before they met me and always asked her opinion. But, they didn't force her into marrying someone she didn't want to. I don't think people force their kids anymore to marry someone they don't like. Finally, they let her marry someone she felt comfortable marrying. On my side, I feel lucky for having a wife like her, though I have a feeling that your husband feels that way too wihtout knowing the truth about what you are doing. I am glad I didn't marry any of the women I felt like marrying or I was in so called love with. It was painful, but I knew what I wanted in my life and how they were different from me. Although, we are going away from the subject here, all I am trying to say here is that it doesn't matter how you get married, once people made a commitment, they should be honest and faithful to their partners. There is no excuse for having an affair. If you don't believe in an arranged-marriage, you should put foot down in front of your parents and not allow them to force you into it. But, why punish your spouse later?
Actually, I think arranged marriage is only an excuse in trying to justify an affair. In the US, most of the marriages are love marriages and people still have affairs. So, I would say it depends upon individuals' mentality and doesn't have much to do with kind of marriage you had.
Now if you think you are having affairs because your husband is over-protective, I am not sure if it makes much sense. I also think that your other statement about Jat husbands being taught to treat their wives as lower than other family member is wrong as well. I am not sure what kind of family your husband is from. But, I believe there are different factors that count and it changes from family to family.
I understand you like having affair. But, I think you should try to put yourself in his shoe and think how you would feel if he did it to you. If you don't love him, maybe you should get rid of him and marry the other guy. You might say that it isn't my business and you would be right about it. It's just my concern and it scares me to imagine the future of this world if it becomes normal to have extra-marital affairs.
Take care
| By Hathoda on Friday, July 23, 1999 - 09:31 pm: |
What Jatism have to do with adultary? Can someone explain to me?
| By Princess on Saturday, July 24, 1999 - 04:31 am: |
I agree with Jat Punjabi. There is no justification in adultry period!
However Jat Punjabi even in this day and age people are forced to marry someone they don't want to so don't think it doesn't happen anymore. And it doesn't just happen in villages, it happens in big cities and educated families. Mental pressure, emotional blackmail are also other words for force!
| By Aman Khera on Saturday, July 24, 1999 - 05:55 am: |
Thanks,everyone to give a thought on arranged marriages and some unlucky marriages which still happen in our culture,no matter how much hypocrite one tries to be, truth about life is somtimes very sour specially if it is based on background of false pride and macho concept in indian marriages.I am still convinced only those people can understand this kind of bliss who are going through this not people with fake sense of pride and hypocrites or unfortunate ones.I am happy what I found about true sexual relationship.
| By cuties on Saturday, July 24, 1999 - 12:58 pm: |
HEY YOU GUYS
I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND WHY DO PEOPLE GET SO WORKED UP ON HEARING THINGSWHICH GO ON AS USUAL AROUND US ALL THE TIME, CIRCUMSTANCES CAN FORCE ANYBODY TO COMPROMISE, ME AND MY WIFE EXPRESS OUIR FEELINGS TO EACH OTHER QUITE A LOT AND THE TOPICS ALSO INCLUDES LOTS OF IFS AND BUTS, WE HAVE IMPROVED UPON OUR RELATIONSHIP THE LAST YEAR OR SO BASICALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT MAKES U HUNGRY FOR A SEXUAL AFFAIR OUTSIDE UR MARRIAGE, TO MAKE IT CLEARER WE MET A COUPLE AND THE EVENING DRIFTED TO A LOT OF SEXUAL TALK, WE WERE FLIRTING, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS NOT THE EASIEST OF THINGS TO DO, WE LATTER TALKED A LOT ABOUT IT AND WE WERE SHOCKED THAT WE COULD GET A COMMUNICATION GOING ON, WE BELIEVE THAT THE COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY TO THE WHOLE ISSUE AND THERE HAS TO BE AN EFFORT INTO IT, MOST INDIAN MEN ARE FAR TOO CHAUVNIST TO DIGEST
| By Anonymous on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 12:31 am: |
To Cheaters...
Arrange marriage is just an excuse to cheat. Men/women if you are soooo unhappy in an arrange marriage and have found a happy relationship elsewhere... why bother to stay in a marriage? Leave... Go be happy elsewhere... I assure you though no one is perfect and your new found partner and you will have problems as well.
Hypocracy, pretentious and lies have/do exists in Indian culture, there aren't new concepts.
| By Joseph on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 02:11 am: |
Hello Aman,
so far we had all Indain men as cheaters on this forum, although we learnd it from the people they were abusing, not the wife, but from the unmarried ones. Now since you have come forward, I hope you would not mind answering few questions from which we all can learn from a woman's perspective.
You say you are happily married for 11 years, but sexually not since last 7 years. Why are you seperating sex from marriage when you say you are happily married? Is there some kind of arrangement in your marriage where both of you can practice sex outside of marriage? If not, aren't you breaking the "faithful" part of the marriage vows? In other words, why are you still married? (I am not preaching morality, but want to know why someone will want to be married and have affair, or why can't you respect him and divorce him)
In your last post you have made comments on forced arranged marriage and its concequences and I can gather that you have very little in common with your husband, or you have found an excuse. Do you think that the way this concept of arranged marriage is set up in our culture where divorce is considered a taboo, adultry is tolerated? I personally see one of the biggest disadvantage of arranged marriage without concent is the incidences of adultry, specially in case of men where they are protected such that they know if they cheat and get caught, woman will most likely not leave him either because she will not be accepted by her family of society or she can not support her self. I think this "immunity" to men also contributes towards their habit of having a cake and eat it too.
Do you think if your husband finds out, he will divorce you? Or will succumb to the external pressure and let it go?
How would you react if your husband cheat on you and give you the same reasons you are giving, that is if only he got caught? Would you divorce him?
I know there are too many questions, but try whatever you can to respond. Thanks.
| By Aman Khera on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 10:46 am: |
To Joseph,
In order to understand the truth and need for extra martial sexual relationship you need to know the reason and background of every indiviual who ever indulges into this kind of relationship.All I was trying to say was that it can happen to anyone in anytime of life which can change one's life as it did for me .I am from an educated Jat family,where as my husband's side is typical family from village.If you go about 2 generations above my husband's family you would find that his grandfather were 4 brothers who were sharing the same wife,which was very common among Jat Families at that time and that is one of the reason that Jats use to kill their own family members due to women and land.Since times have changed we still have that kind of mentality among Jat families where women are still somtimes treated as a commodity rather than a person.Women have their needs,which is love,respect and ofcourse sexual satisfaction which is not possible without love and care.It does'nt mean that one has to commit adultry,but to find the true meaning of love and sexual satisfaction,which I have found out of marriage.The reason I can't leave my husband is due to the cultural and family obligations.I have found true meaning of love and physical satisfaction with my lover ,who does'nt happen to be my husband.
| By Anonymous on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 04:17 pm: |
To Aman Khera,
I am from an educated Jat family,where as my husband's side is typical family from village.If you go about 2 generations above my husband's family you would find that his grandfather were 4 brothers who were sharing the same wife,which was very common among Jat Families at that time and that is one of the reason that Jats use to kill their own family members due to women and land.
Well, Aman khera... not much has changed... As an educated person 2 generations later... you are practicing what they did back then. Instead of 4 men sharing a woman... in your case... it is two men sharing a woman or one woman sharing 2 men...
If you are educated, smart and independent what is preventing you from leaving your marriage? (other than selfish need or greed of financial security).
| By Anonymous on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 04:22 pm: |
On the other hand...
It is nice to see women finally taking control of their own hapiness.
Indian men have tendency to take what they want in a marriage. My personal opinion... Indian men are getting married out of need of someone to cook/clean for them and use wife for sex when they have their needs...basically wife = slavery.
I wish more women would realize and stand up to some of these village mentality.
| By Joseph on Monday, July 26, 1999 - 01:27 pm: |
Aman, thanks for your response. So it seems that the reasons for Post-marrital affairs and one's rationale or explanation of that situation varies greatly individually based on the reasons as well as background of the social environment. Thanks again for discussing.
| By Jat Punjabi on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 02:29 am: |
Aman Khera,
Just curious, which country are you living in? If you are in India, my understanding is it's very difficult to have an affair like this. People will find out real fast.
I never knew that Jats used to share their wives among brothers. Was there any particular reason behind it?
Also, I think we are being unfair to people who are not much educated and living in villages. In villages, there are some very cool people. If someone isn't educated, it doesn't mean he/she is unethical.
| By Rahi on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 03:51 pm: |
This posting is in respone to Aman Khera on "Post-Marital? Adultery! Other Adventures"
Moderator could you please move this to that location. Somehow at the end that location does not provide option to respond. So I could not put this on the proper location.
To Aman Khera
"If you go about 2 generations above my husband's family you would find that his grandfather were 4 brothers who were sharing the same wife, which was very common among Jat Families at that time and that is one of the reason that Jats use to kill their own family members due to women and land."
I feel necessary to comment on this line. I am not Jat but lived in Village where my father used to run a business and majority of the community was Jat. I am 45 now and spent a big chunk of my life in village though from last 7 years I am in USA. I have/had lots of Jat friends and used to go and still visit them whenever I visit India. I never witnessed or heard what Aman Khera wrote that Jat's share their wives. I don't know even a single incident when two brothers shared a wife. Although sometimes incidents of adultery or misbehave with women (called sexual battery in USA) were reported. These incidents were like in population of 3000 about an average two to three. Which in my opinion ratio is far less than what is happening in USA.
Jat people living in villages are very clear hearted, simple, honest and hard working people. Not all but some of them are very rigid in there ideas and mostly I have seen/noticed due to lack of education. Four brother sharing wife is totally lie I never heard (even two generations ago), seen or witnessed during my 25 years stay in Jat dominant village. Jat's are short tempered, honest people and can not tolerate injustice to someone they even do not know. They are true friends and can die for friendship. They are not businessmen and economics is their weakness. Yes Aman Khera you are right, sometimes they have property disputes. Again ratio is small and it is usually among family members. If you look at the statistics with western world ratio is very minute. In the village I lived only one death due to property dispute happened in 25 years. Aman is right, the difference among boys and girls among can be seen. Again every one who lived in India or familiar with Indian culture knows that boys are preferred over girls. It does not matter which part of India you are boys are preferred over girls with few exceptions. Blaming Jats for this is unjustified, blaming Indian culture will be most appropriate.
In my opinion Ms. Aman Khera you need help and stop blaming your culture. I respect jats (men and women) and I request you that please do not malign your culture to prove your wrongful conduct is justified. You have done something, which is unethical, wrong, and unfair to your kids. If you don't like Jat culture go get divorce and get married in other culture. Why are you sticking with your husband? You don't like him, right. …………… Then leave him……… Find another one or the one gives you satisfaction………. And then ………. Another ……… and finally your beauty will die and then another…….. May be I am wrong you will not be able to find someone with faded beauty. I think your kids will respect you for the entire plan I mentioned above when they grow up. Go get help………. If you think it is unbearable to live with your life partner and emotional calculations tell you that divorce is the only solution. It is never late to get divorce. This way, you walk with your head up with your lover of choice and need not to play hide and seek game. Keep in mind never bring economic calculations in this matter, if you do this you are doing injustice to your emotions. For me emotions are first and economics second. I can live happy life with less money, but spouse cheating I'll never do even if I don't like her. Who cares if I drive Jaguar or 1980 chevy cavalier? Life of dignity with 1980 Chevy cavalier is more important to me than driving Jaguar. Best of Luck Ms. Aman Khera. By the way Khera name you inherited from your husband or lover. Just curious…
| By murakh on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 06:20 pm: |
Dear Editor
Wow thats quite shocking but it is possible.
I believe the story is clear now.
It is husband and wife team probably and the husband is gay and the woman is having an affair with another man. An arrangement?
| By cuties on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 07:00 am: |
thats a cracker, u need to expunge people who misuse the forum for satisying their mentally sick mind.....can we have some fresh air blowing in
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 02:26 pm: |
Editor,
Thank you for telling us. I was suspicious about this and I was going to ask you if there was any relationship between Aman Khera, Neelam Sandhu and Nirmal Sidhu (on impotancy page.
Take care
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 02:29 pm: |
Rahi,
Thank you very much. I was going to have something like this for Aman Khera as well.
| By Jat Punjabi on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 03:28 pm: |
Anybody in good mood today?
apane rukh pe nigaah karane do
khuubasuurat gunaah karane do
rukh se pardaa haTaao jaan-e-hayaa
aaj dil ko tabaah karane do
| By murakh on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 07:10 pm: |
Jat bhai
Wah wah kya baat hai ji.
Aman khera/neelam/neeta/navdeep/gayman?
I hope aman khera's simulator gets a life.
If he/she is serious they should come up honestly with facts and not create fantasies lifted from pulp fiction and cheap romantic stories.
I tell you one can immediately feel the true and the fantastic.
Jat and rahi you need not worry bhai sahib.
Are there any real women who can manage to keep a second man while married?? I guess very few because most such affairs end up in short term.
If the husband is gay, there can be an exception.
What do you think?
| By Seekwar on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 08:29 pm: |
Why is it that so many people are attack Jats? The naleem person was doing this also by the stories.
Marakh your funny. I think it is an arrangment.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 04, 1999 - 04:57 pm: |
Everyone,
I don't always use the same name when I am posting either. Depending on if I am responding to another Anonymous or the mood. What's the difference... I think it is wrong to make assumptions on this internet boards that everyone is honest...Discussions should be and are based on the topics. Not based on who it is? Basically, every on these board is virtually responding, not face to face, identity should not matter.
| By Rahi on Wednesday, August 04, 1999 - 07:09 pm: |
I agree with Anonymous, posting under different names should not be an issue as long as one does not attack personally or on the basis of origin, religion. As long as one respect the right of other individual posting message and does not malign someone’s culture it is OK to me. Every culture has positives and negative points. Posting under two different names is like providing two different opinions to me.
However, I agree with the editor and his judgement on the above instance. Editor you did the right thing in exposing the person involved (Aman Khera, Neelam Sandhu.......) as he/she was not very serious about discussion and was misusing this board for fantasy. However, there should be a separate section for fantasies. Aman Khera, Neelam Sandhu, ...... should be allowed to fulfill his/her desire over there.
| By Rahi on Wednesday, August 11, 1999 - 10:05 pm: |
Why it is so quite here?
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, August 31, 1999 - 04:45 pm: |
Hummm....I think...many are probably are too busy cheating...to take time away to discuss.
| By Atty on Wednesday, September 01, 1999 - 05:25 pm: |
Hello my name is Atty. I used to have an adulterous relationship with one Indian guy that I fell in love with years age. Our relationship lasted about seven years and I could not take any more torture of missed holidays, meeetings and unreliable financial support. During those seven years he fathered two children. We met by coincidence one day shopping and started to talk. I was divorced at the time and he listened to me and that was what I needed at the time. It was with much reservations and plenty of conversation, speculation, and prayer before we had sex. The ironic thing about the situation was while I really loved him and still do, he never granted me my wishes for sexual satisfaction. He was always satisfied but would never do what I wanted in bed. His excuse was always that he was afraid that I would love him more than I already did and that would be tragic. Ten years have passed now. We are still friends, but we have no more relationship or sex. I asked him to get a divorce, or have a polymogous marriage or make some kind of committment to me and he never could so we can only be friends.
I never really cared about the relationship problems he said he was having with his wife. I know that there are always two sides to every story. I know that he is freightened of her, but this was a love marriage for them and not an arranged one. It seems that she treats him really bad. He won't leave because of finances and he does not want her to know the truth about his behaviour. Sometimes I'd like to tell her all of the truth, sometimes I'd like to see thier marriage finally come to and end. No matter if he never sees me again. Some of the things I hear go on in their family is not good for him, her or the children.
Please tell me what you people out there in cyberland think...
| By Princess on Wednesday, September 01, 1999 - 06:48 pm: |
Atty,
You were having a relationship with a guy who was cheating on his wife and you expected faith from him for you? How is that possible? You expected him to satisfy you in bed? Why? He had a wife to go home to didn't he? I'm not being harsh just being real.
If you have two children from him I don't know what part of world you live in or if you are Indian but these things aren't something that stay in wraps too long. Shouldn't you be holding him responsible atleast in helping you financially with your children? Do you as a woman really think that his wife was oblivious to his adultorous life? One has to be really thick to not know. I'm sure she knew.
What are you looking for? Salvation? Solution? Him back? What you didn't isn't immoral. We are human and we make mistakes and often in the name of love we do a lot of things that go outside of the norm of society. Move on and find yourself someone who will treat you better then he did in bed and out. Regardless of what you did as a human being you deserve better.
| By Yuvraj on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 08:35 pm: |
Hi Everybody,
This is very nice topic to discuss. Its not mere discussion but presentation of values which society or individual has. Humans have evolved out from animals, and are extra ordinary in every sense. Marriage is one of the aspect of developed, culterd society, and is important in every culture of the world, be that of any age. Not only humans, even some animal obey this norm. Marriage is having mutual trust, pure love to your parter, and any deviation from this is breach of the relationship.
This doesn't mean person has to be in relation forcefully. Every country's law permit divorce, and individual is free to find another partner of choice, but here too you need to be loyal. People come out with absurd excuses, when they commit adultury. No one should blame culture, background, society, education. Because its an individual choice, irrepective of all this. Many of uneducated , poor persons hold good values, respect trust, than those of educated and rich. Its the individuality. The person commiting adultury is diceiving his/her parter and is even polluting the society, and it should discouraged.
| By ALARMED on Friday, October 01, 1999 - 05:57 am: |
Editor,
Sir, I happened to really enjopy the postings on this site...until ofcourse the part of some nuisance. There is this new software utility that one can pinpoint and find not only the ISP, but the cookie enables to capture the email ID's,of the person visitng the site/per page...U may wish to send me an email at desiweb@hotmail.com..and I shall write more in detail.
Regards,
| By Experimenter on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 01:44 am: |
One way to avoid boredom in sex is fantasy.
All men and women dream about doing it to other women or men.
So when my wife and I have sex, we address each other as the person with whom we would like to be.
Sometimes, we take this one step further forming complete fantasies about partner-exchange.
| By Raj on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 03:43 pm: |
To Aman Khera,
I have never seen a family in my life where 4 brothers are sharing one women though I had read it in Mahabharta about Draupdi.As far as Jats are concerned I am always intersted in their history and origin.I had never come across a single instance like this.Lot of hidden things keep going in all cultures and society but these hidden things you will find in Jats is very less as compare to any other community.Jats as such as always been hated in India because of their uprightness and straightforwardness.They are short tempered and may abuse physically but they not as dangerous as of Brahmins or Baniyas or khatri punjabis(ex.see all refugees in Delhi).For your information Jats are the only people who keep Muslim invaders from entering India.Once they surrenedred,rest is history and we all know how badly Indians were repeteadly raped by the invaders.
As far as extra martial affairs are concerned in Cities like Chandigargh,Delhi etc.married couple are at good experimenting with swapping.On intrenet sites like Adult Freind Finder etc. you will find lot of postings by couples who are looking for couples for some fun and sex.I feel it is somewhat a better way though you should try to indulge in it.In swapping everyting goes as per consensus of both the couples and no body can point fingers to anyone.If one is not interseted you may backout.This will make both couples to enjoy extramartial affair and you keep your marriage healthy and alive along with some excitments.In one side extra affair it is very dangerous and can lead to lot of probles."yes" you need lot of understandinfg for swapping.
| By Chandra Sekhar Banik on Monday, December 13, 1999 - 12:29 am: |
It has reference to a posting in reply to Mrs. Aman Khera Wednesday, July 14, 1999 - 11:54 am:
I am happily married for last 11 yrs,but I started to see
by one Rayna,
Dear Rayna I feel you have failed to appreciate the contention of the matter. Relations can not be bounded or forced upon!It is a feeling and it always does not go with social relations , Sex in the same way should be treated as a way of satisfying your biological and psycological needs,and in the due coarse if you do some thing which our society does not accept it is not sin,as society is for humans and humans are not for society. Every person has the right to live and enjoy, our society can not be guiding us in our in each and every steps.I dont understand why you have described it as cheating I feel Mrs. Aman has done the right thing.If she would due to others (society) suffer from not being able to enjoy her life it would be a terrible case of hypocracy.And she did not disclose it was also a very sensible judgement on her part because otherwise it would have been detrimental to family life as 90% of us think the way you do. I support her fully.
| By Chandra Sekhar Banik on Monday, December 13, 1999 - 12:33 am: |
How about starting a discussion on "sex before marriage"
| By Bachu on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 05:23 am: |
Is sex before marriage sin?
| By Susan on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 08:58 am: |
Bachu,
There is a wide variety of opinions on this issue.
I believe it depends on motive. In my opinion, if you make love with someone you love because you love them and want that intimacy, then I think it's not wrong. If you have sex with someone just for the sake of having sex, then I think it is wrong.
I'm sure you'll get a wide variance of answers about this, but you'll have to make up your own mind about if it's right or wrong for you. Nobody here can tell you that.
| By Bachu on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 06:01 am: |
Susan I got your answer to my question. But my main problem is that I have may female friends. And out of them few are interest in having sex with me. In fact the physical attraction has been playing a vital role with it comes to girls. Many a times I have turn my back on them. But couple of times I have surrendered to my weaknesses. I had sex with couple of them, though I feel as a sinner, but now things have changed a bit. Is marriage the right solution to that problem? Reply
| By Susan on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 09:57 am: |
Bachu,
I honestly think if you married one of these girls because of guilty feelings, you'd only be compounding the problem.
If you are in love with one of these girls (and she with you) then marriage might be the right path there, but then you shouldn't be having sexual relations with any other women if you're in love with one of them.
So, you need to ask yourself why are you considering marriage? Is it really right for you? Is she really right for you?
If you feel bad after having sexual relations with women, then you need to try to control your sexual urges. Sometimes easier to say than do, I understand, but you have to do it or you might one day regret that you've done that intimate act with so many women.
Best of luck to you.
| By Bulls on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 08:00 am: |
hi i m looking for a gal named nancy who used to live in dehra dun where i met her.
nancy if at all u see my message try and contact me
this is bulls !!!!
| By Sunny Singh on Sunday, July 09, 2000 - 10:17 pm: |
Some people on this thread talked about the issue of polyandry among Jats around 100 years ago. I believe it was a repercussion to female infanticide. Here's an excerpt from my writings on Punjabi.net:
"I researched the infanticide issue. Here we go. Per K.B. Pakrasi in Female Infanticide in India, 1970:
Walker was noticed by one Nizam-ood-deen Hussain that the Jhuts of Bhurtpore were by that time in habit of putting to death their daughters at the moment of
their birth, by opium, or by strangling. Motive was to remain safe from the disgrace that would fall upon them in marrying their daughters to persons of inferior
rank……. The Jhut Governors of Hathra(thirty miles east of Agra) and the Jhut Mursan were similarly believed to have the custom. It was further noted that some
of the Rhatore, the Haree of Bondee Kata, the Waish in the Poorub, the Jhut of Hindoostan and some of the Kuta harees of Jeypoor and other Rajpoot tribes also
had the custom of infanticide…. In this connection the Board of Directors at London was appraising that the Jharejas were not the singular group in habit of killing
female infants. This custom was again traced among Rhatore of Jeypoor and Jodhpoor, the Haree of Bondee Kata, the Waish of the Poorub, the Jhuts of
Hindoostan and various Rajpoots tribes situated from each other……..The sacrifice is confined, it would appear, to females, and to Rajpoots, or such as claim their
descent from that military race. Among a people devoted to war, and peculiarly exposed to danger, the rearing of their daughters may often have been an object
of great difficulty, and in some situations they may have proved an impediment to the professions of arms. They may, therefore, have made this sacrifice, on
some emergency, to their convenience, and even to their safety, or to a dreadful superstition very prevalent in ancient times, as the means of appeasing the
wrath, or of propitiating the favor, of the gods.
So Pakrasi described the possible reasons for infanticide, as well as, the tribes involved. This was around the 1830's. Incidentally, he showed in tabular data the male/female ratio was on average 3:1 among these Rajputs tribes. One can suspect the Jat number were around the same, which is substantiated in A.
Bingleys, The Sikhs, 1910 in which he goes further and shows the effects on morality and marriage:
The prevailing crime among them is cattle-lifting and the abduction of married women….The paucity of women among Jats and Sikhs makes marriage difficult and
expensive*. The birth of a daughter, indeed, has come to be regarded as a piece of good-luck, and female infanticide, which is still so common among Rajputs,
has entirely disappeared among the Jats. It is no wonder, therefore, that marriage is regarded as a luxury, and one wife enough for a whole family. "It is certain that polyandry is common practice, and the manner in which the brother claims karewa on the decease of the nominal husband, strongly supports this theory, The girl is considered as purchased by the family, who can seldom afford to pay so large a sum as her price twice over….There is undoubtedly a good deal of free intercourse between married women and their brothers-in-law, and in the larger villages immoral relations between the landowners and the women of the kamin or menial class are not of infrequent occurrences. The custom of Jats and Sikhs with regard to concubinage are also extremely lax………
*"The number of single males is nearly double that of single females."-Punjab Gazetteer.
In another book by Bingley, History, Caste, and Culture of Jats and Gujjars, 1899, he mentions:
It is thus possible for a Jat to marry a Gujar, and vice versa. Even women of the lower castes can be so married, but the woman is then called a heri hui,
although the contract is perfectly legal.
Now the question arises of purchasing wives. M.C. Pradhan mentions about this in The Political System of the Jats of Northern India, 1930:
The third form of marriage is called mol-lana, or buying a woman, The woman is bought for cash from her parents or guardian and may be of any caste or
community….Cases of buying women of Brahmin and Muslim castes are not infrequent, but if the caste of a woman is known to be low, this fact is kept secret
and she is passed off as belonging to some high caste….Children raised from mol-lana marriages are considered legal heirs to the father's property….Although the buying of a wife used to be sometimes to be practiced by the Jats on account of the scarcity of women, created probably by the custom of female infanticide which was prevalent among them about sixty or seventy years ago, it is now most uncommon. Infanticide itself has completely died out.
I will leave you with what I found in Harry Izmirlian Jr.'s book, Structure and Stategy in Sikh Society, 1979. In this quote it should be mentioned that his is talking about Nalli, a Grewal village:
Polyandrous relations, or relations approximating polyandry, are more in evidence than polygynous relations. A number of brothers will often share the sexual privileges of one wife. Most villagers presume that this is the case when there is but one married son and a number of brothers. (This presumption appears justified, for taking down genealogies, a number of persons were not certain as to which of the brothers was their biological father.)
The Kadesan(name given to wives purchased outside of Punjab) issue is a natural repercussion of this female shortage. These are exact quotes, so you don't have to take my word for it. It should be noted for a
good reference on female infanticide and buying women see Crook(1896), I couldn't find this reference. Good luck.
PS- Approximate date of the female shortage are 1830's to late 1940's (partition). Infanticide had begun to cease around the late 1800's, due to extreme shortages. The influx of females from the Partition of 1947 helped the male:female ratio. Thus, not all Jats praticed Infanticide.
| By An Irishman on Friday, September 01, 2000 - 09:17 am: |
Can anyone here, of ANY religion, honestly say that there is nothing immoral about cheating on one's spouse? Is there any greater bond of trust between humans broken and defiled, every single time it occurs?
Please, whatever your religion, please answer my question.
| By debbie on Thursday, September 14, 2000 - 07:27 pm: |
we are a white married couple we had been married eight years whe this hapend. our sex life had been geting quite routene and not nearly exciting as it once was. my husband and his friend were on a hunting trip in a nother state. a nice looking black man envited me out. I had never dated a black man and I found him very careing and gentle. we ended up in a motel room and I experiance the most wonderful and fufilling sex that I ever had enjoyed.we saw each other very frequently for several months. then my husband found out, at first he was angry then our love was greater than fisical sex. infact it renued our sex life and has even resulted in my husban anI and my black lover ingageing in several threesomes. our love and marrage has never been stronger
| By PK - Helpless on Saturday, September 23, 2000 - 04:46 am: |
A UNIQUE KIND OF INFEDILITY/ADULTERY..PLEASE HELP ME!
Hello Friends and to all helpful advisers:
I have a unique kind of accidental adulterous experience in my life lately that I am very concerned about. Me and my husband are victims of the so-called child marriage custom and got married when we were 13 and 15 year old respectively. But after initial family flaws we developed a very good understanding between us and our marriage has been working very well since then. We have two kids both sons ages 14 and 10. This incident happened a couple of months ago when my husband was away on a business trip. As a part of my routine household engagements I help bathe my kids quite often as they slip away from the shower unclean if unattended properly. One morning, when my elder son was in shower, I popped in to the bathroom to see if he needed any help. He indeed needed my help at that moment. As I was busy rubbing his back he turned around unwantedly giving me a full amazing look of his erected penis. I can't believe he was like a well grown man at this age of 14. I have had been helping him earlier but didn't even notice this sort of physical change before. Unknowingly and amidst this shocking surprize I found myself completely wet in shower with my silky nighty just glazed all over my 28 year old still sexy body making me almost nude in this shower. One thing led to another and I don't know when I "committed" this crime of humanity with my own adolescent son.
To keep things normal and above all in saving our family from a major disaster, I sought promises from my son to keep his mouth shut for the rest of his life. I started feeling a kind of physiological changes in my body and was not sure about the reason. When my husband returned home the following week, we started our routine life as usual. We both even made love several times until I missed my period and recently found out that I am pregrant. I am undergoing with a sensation of terrible guilt since this incident occured. Also I am doubtful and almost nearer to be sure that I may be pregnant with my own son and not by my husband. This feeling is making my life miserable and I have no idea what to do. I beg you readers to provide me with any solution you might offer. I am in a very horrible situation right now....Please help me!!!!!!!
Unique adultress
PK
| By Zarina Khan on Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 06:38 am: |
Unique Adultress:
What you have committed is not just a crime, it's such an evil act even animals might think before getting involved in.... I would just say SHAME ON YOU!
You don't need any advice or suggestions for your stinking morality. You need a complete psychological exam, not just by a single psychiatrist but a full board of experienced pscychiatrist should examine you and should put you in constant care for atleast an year or unless you get recovered mentally......
You are some kind of a "B---H" and a big enigma on womankind!!!
Zarina Khan
St. Louis
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 04:53 am: |
Unique adultress and all readers:
Situations like this woman had been through are not unnatural. Our society keeps regards for our emotions and respects our relations, but our bodies just don't have respect for them. Human body needs satisfaction and finds ways how to interact with opposite sex to satify this urge. This is how such things happen. We shouldn't totally condemn these incidents. They are accidents; and nobody likes accidents to occur but accidents DO happen... This woman in fact needs advice and help from us. I think it would be appropriate for well-known and well-respected advisers from this site like "Princess" "Rayna" etc. should come forward and help her out of this mess...
Sarita
NJ
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 10:38 pm: |
PK
I'm sorry that this incident occured to you. I'm a man, 38 yrs old, but can understand your situation, although some part me thinks whether such a story can be real, and whether this post is some sort of a trick. Does your husband know that you could become pregnant? Don't you use contraceptives? I can not believe that you had a son 10 years ago, and have had active sex life, without using birth control.
If your husband feels that it is a mistake in birth control, and you are not sure yourself, why believe that the incident caused you to be pregnant? There is no point in discussing this incident with your husband. Do not bring it up with him.
If you are sure that it was that incident, and both your husband and son don't know that you are pregnant, and you do not want the child, the safest choice in my opinion is to terminate this pregnancy. Again, try and forget this and get back to your normal life, which would have occured, if not for the pregnancy.
If you still want to keep this child, there is no recourse, but to convince your husband and son that it is through a mistake in birth control and was conceived from your relationship with your husband. You may need to convince yourself that this was the case.
Regardless, your social relationship with your elder son is forever changed. It has the potential to impact him as well, since he may believe that the consequences of casual sex with anyone is okay. Are you able to deal with day-to-day interactions with your son?
There is no clear answers here. A more common occurance is father-to-daughter, and such incest is a terrible mistake as well. However, it almost never occurs with a sexually active daughter (with her husband); it is usually very young unmarried daughter.
| By Babe on Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 08:30 pm: |
wait so let me get this straight PK you were 28 when it happened and your son was 14 and you got married at 13 so my math tells me you had your son when you were 14 ok im up to speed. And then you tell us that a 14 year old boy needs help washing himself in the shower ?????? oh come on puh leeze stop the hoaxy story you cant even make up a story thats believable PK !!!! go back to reading those mills and boons novels to get an idea of how a real sex scandal is written -
| By AQ on Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 12:52 pm: |
To Aman Khera,
I have gone through much of the discussion regarding your experience. I am well accustomed with south asian culture, traditions etc. I am a happily married man and having a good sex life with my wife. We do discuss several controversial topics including extra-marital sex openly.
In my opinion, having sex with another man or woman after getting married has nothing to do with religion, culture, nationality or race. Having sex with another man is adventurous. If after getting married someone else is fullfilling your desires, it is very hard to stop yourself from this act. Although it is not justified in any religion or culture. But this is is electreonic era with a strong media. You can get infatuated with another man or woman. And if the other person is also having the same sexual attraction for you, both of them will have a spicy relationship. I think if I will meet some sexy married woman and if she is going to seduce me I will get involved with her.
| By Stranger on Thursday, October 19, 2000 - 04:08 pm: |
I am a 26 years old married man. This story of mine started When I was doing my O' levels from a local school and I was only 15 Years old. It was a Co-education school and I was having an affair with one of my juniors. Everything was going fine when suddenly one of our teachers came to know about it. That teacher was also young and was about 26 years old and was unmarried. She called my girlfriend and asked her about the whole affair. As my friend was very young and being afraid of the consequences she told her the whole story. When my friend told me all this, I was really shocked as my parents were really strict. The other day she called me and told me that today you are not going to go home as a punishment and that she is going to call my parents within a couple of days and tell them about my activities. She called my mother in front of me that her son is going to stay late in the school as he has not completed his assignment. After about 1400 Hrs when nobody was in the school except the watchman, she called me in the staff room where teachers used to sit and chat in their free hours. She asked me to sit beside her and started smiling cunningly. One thing I have forgotten to tell that she was very beautiful and sexy. She used to wear skin fitted see through clothes most of the time. Although I was young but well aware of sexual desires and was quite mature. Iwas refraining from looking at her as she was very near to me and was smiling and looking very strangely. Suddenly she came close to me and started kissing me. Iwas really out of my mind as she was a real sexy woman and was doing everything in a very wild manner. She took off mine and her clothes and did everything whatever she could do at that time. She asked me not to tell it to anyone as if I would do s she is going to tell my parents about my girlfriend and will through me out of the school. I promised her that I am not going to tell anything to anyone. After all this I was feeling very strange as it happened to me for the first time but I really enjoyed all that with such a sexy woman. After a couple of days she called me and asked me take tuition from her at her home. I asked my mother and she agreed to it as she was already looking for a teacher to take care of me. I started going to her place in the aftyernoon. She used to live with her father and her father used to come in the evening. Her mother was died long back and she had no brothers or sisters. She started a neverending (seemingly) sex life with me. Both of us used to have sex and she did whatever an experienced woman can do with a young boy. I was addicted to have sex with her. Then my school days came to end and I didn't meet her. Somebody from my scool told me that she got married when I was at my Engineering college and was quite mature. One day she called me at my home and ask me to refresh my memories and recognize her when I was in my Final year Engineering. I recognized her and evrything refreshed in my mind. She asked me to meet her somewhere in a restaurant. I went to see her and found her more sexy and provoking. Now she was in her late thirties but still looking like a mature provoking •••••. She told me that her husband is in merchant Navy and out of the town most of the time and she has two small kids. I was really obsessed with her cunning and sexy looks and started having sex with her. Now I am married and having a good sex life with my wife but Still I do meet her and we have sex. Now I do need somebody's help as I am feeling guilty since my wife doesn't know about all this.
I do enjoy having sex with that slut but now because of guilt I dont want to continue it, although it is very hard to stop myself. On the other hand that ••••• is not going to leave me as she says that she will never stop this adventure of having sex with her old student. She really enjoys having sex with me and it is very hard for me to stop as she is a very hot, sexy. experienced slut with all anyone can dream. We are still having sex together and she really satisfies me. She gives me evrything a man can dream for his physical satisfaction. Please help me and give me some advise.
| By PK on Monday, October 23, 2000 - 11:21 am: |
Anonymous and other folks:
Thanks for those who believe in my words and extended or wish to extend their moral support for such an immoral act of my impaired innocense and also to them who criticised my personality. I feel I don't have any rebuttal right to those who basically disregard my story and assumed this to be an unimpressive fictitious episode. I don't argue with them either. With regards to my self-volunteering practice in assisting my kids in their day to day things, I would just say some kids feel responsible and try to be independent from the very beginning of their childhood but some are so negligent that they constantly need help or atleast some sort of supervision while growing. I think I exceeded my limits in this administration. This could be my feeling of over cautiousness but the whole consequence of this shameful incident can never be considered as "hoaxy story". Again I know I can't say more than that. Any more suggestions that could help in my self repairment would always be welcome.
| By Torture on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 09:27 pm: |
To Aman Khera
Aman i am trying to understand your situation and mine.My wifes name is also Aman we got married 14yrs ago,we have 4 children.6 years ago on karuwa chauth (women fast on this day for their husbands)i caught my wife red handed having an affair with a good friend of mine,he is also married with kids.She obviously denied or tried to anyway and promised me and my childern and my parents for forgivness that it would never happen again and I unsure at the time of my emotional self accepted her.
Now here are my feelings and thoughts,I had never struck my wife up until that point but the rage in me was overpowering,i died that day,Karuwa Chauth of all the days.I live only for my kids.I know someone will challenge my reasoning for accepting my wife after this,but i dug deep into my soul to ease the pain and my suffering,i brought these kids into this world,they need a mother,where am i going to find a mother, that will atleast tend to their motherly needs?
I sacrifised my life,since then the stress,anger mood-swings have all taken a heavy toll on my life,I developed Asthama,insomnia and never mind the hair loss most of all my self esteem all this at a young age of 34,now i am 40.
I was an athletic person 6.2",235lb heavily in to bodybuilding,non smoker,reglious,took care of my parents(they lived with me)and can honestly say i was/am a great father,and a loyal husband.It was a love marriage,she a sikh me a hindu.Religion was never an issue but i started to dislike everything she represented.
Anyway Aman, 2 years ago guess what?she got caught again with the same man(we live in the same town).I smashed her head against the wall broke her arm,i practically riped her clothes and gave her a beating that i thought she would never forgett,all this in the view of my kids and parents.She called the police i was taken to jail,locked up and charged with assault.My dearest mother unable to accept her sons and grandchildern situation died very soon of heart attack,her mother died soon for similar reasons,her father had a stroke(still alive)my kids look at me as a monster and due to all of the above circumstances my family,brothers and sisters have all deserted me,for various allegations of the way i handled the situation.I live in hell,i
pray to god everyday and ask him why me?I you want to understand the word torture look in the dictionary and you will see my picture.
Aman khera,if you can still justify your actions and your moral views after reading my few lines of fate please respond.
| By Alison Lee on Sunday, November 05, 2000 - 05:21 pm: |
in what religion is sex before marrage is wrong?
please e-mail me
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Tuesday, November 07, 2000 - 01:11 am: |
Dear Torture:
My sympathies are with you and I can imagine how painful were the consequences you have been through. One thing that highlights this whole scenario behind your spouse's infedility is sexual dissatisfaction. The story speaks for itself that she needs in bed more than what you have provided. No matter you fathered through her six children but this doesn't guarantee her sexual satisfaction what a woman expects from her man. If this "man" is not you she opts for another who could possible meet this requirement. This rule applies to woman-kind but most women suffocate their urges with various compromises and try to abide by rules prescribed by their societies and cultures. Only a few of them find ways regardless of what society thinks and reacts to their sexual mishaps. I am Punjabi woman myself and can understand very well how punjabi women find their ways in satisfying their sexual urges.
Have you ever heard of 'Viagra'? Put yourself on this medication and look for yourself. Otherwise, my suggestion to you is just disregard and ignore her stupid acts and concentrate on your kids' well-being. You will never steer this ship back to the harbor that has already sailed off the shore.
Sarita Zeeshan
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Thursday, November 09, 2000 - 01:03 am: |
Dear Stranger:
I have no idea how "true" your story is. Suppose, if we believe your version, the young men out there must be jealous of you. What you have been involved must have been the sweetest fantasy a young adolescent male had ever dereamt. You were and being invited for a guilt-free sex with a beautiful woman who never left any responsibility on you for these whole sexual transactions. So!!!!what is YOUR problem sweety? As I said young men go head over heels in finding themselves in a place where you are. And you feel guilty about that? Oh' Come on.... Don't bother if your wife knows about this whole affair. She will never know unless you share with her. Everything will run smooth as long as you let your dirty laundry be done out at your mistress' place.
A quite similar incident happened in Seattle Washington a while ago. A 35 year old school teacher got involved with her 13 year old student and got pregnant. She is now serving her sentence for sexual-abuse with a minor. You were minor at the time when you own story started. I don't know where you live, but if this incidence had occurred in the United States, the woman must have been serving her time.
My advise is DO NOT get upset. There are quite a women out there who prefer to have relationship with boys in their early teens the same way men prefer young teenage girls. This is just a tendency to explore innocent bodies that makes them feel sexually satisfied. I would say, just forget about the whole thing as if it never ever occurred to you. Put yourself away from this woman. If she tries to insist you, tell her that you would discuss this matter with her husband. I think this is enough to keep her away and she will never attempt to continue with this relationship.
Good Luck :)
Sarita
| By Rakesh on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 01:10 am: |
It's cool.
| By NP on Tuesday, November 21, 2000 - 09:50 pm: |
Hi ALL readers and Critics:
I am 25 year old attractive woman from western India. I think Aman Khera is not the only woman from our south asian background who had encountered this sexual mishap. Most women that I know have experienced or atleast have explored such adulterous episodes sometimes in their lives. Most are frequent for the sake of variety and few others committed for their curiosity sake. I am a mother of three beautiful kids, all boys and already had opted for tubectomy following the birth of my third child. Inspite of that my sexual urge continued to rise. My husband is a successful businessman and he hardly finds time to sleep. Sex is the last thing in his list that always skipped or literally ignored. During those lonely days when kids are at school and husband on his business trips, I find myself totally alone as no one in our mansion understands what my needs are? Recently a friend of my husband's family landed in our home on a visit from India. He is a smart attractive man but from different religion. Initially I maintained some distance with this chap. But as days passed and while we started getting along I found him very sexy. Slowly we both gave a try just to initiate a new experience and we both enjoyed. Since then we regularly conduct during the day very hot sessions in bed. My husband doesn't know about this, but I feel very healthy, attractive, bright and confident since then. Also, I never felt bored or felt lonely and didn't lose respect and love for my husband, infact the love for my husband grew tremendously since then....
So Aman Khere, I am in the same boat like yours. Don't feel guilty what you did or been doing. Because this is the only therapy that enhances our self esteem and a magical medicine for our frustations and loneliness.... Good Luck to all other women out there who have similar sweet interactions!
NP
WV - USA
| By anonymous on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 01:24 am: |
I know somebody who is very kind and compationate. But he loves to help others. thats where the problem is.People start to depend on him. I am quite sure that he is not involved with the person, but she is rather expecting more from him, than a friendship. The problem is he knows that very well and still wants to help her,because he thinks it cant be defined as his dishonesty. I feel that he enjoys the fact that others depend on him and doesnt care the way I dislike it or not. He wants me to enjoy in the same way too--in the cost of my marriage? I dont know how to react. I am really upset, or am I thinking the wrong way?
| By shyama on Wednesday, November 22, 2000 - 06:58 pm: |
NP, I was quite intrigued by your adventures. I'm in the same boat as you, a woman in my mid-thirties, married with two daughters, and would love to find someone to satisfy my needs too. How long was it that you were with this gentleman, before it developed into something nice and pleasurable? Who initiated the move. I feel like I might have an opportunity soon, and I don't want to blow it.
| By NP on Thursday, November 23, 2000 - 10:06 am: |
First of all Shyama, I couldn't get your first sentence. If I understood you correctly, you probably were motivated rather than getting "intrigued" by my adventure. Thanks any way!
I have been involved with this gentleman for last four months or so....initially say for about one week or so it was scary because, it was my first adulterous exploration...But this feeling faded away as the time passed and by the end of very second week our waves and vibes were at their peak and quite hit off.... To be frank "he" helped me a lot in gathering all this courage and determination...This has been sooooo pleasureable since then, I can't express in words.
I don't have any guilt for my doings as I had asked to myself several times that what would you do if your husband has no time in taking care of your genuine needs??? Some good folks will say and I know what they would advise, simply to control our urges... but how long?????
You better believe me, this adventure has totally changed my life and I feel in myself a quite wonderful woman, a nice caring mother, an obedient and loving wife and above all a complete confidant person..... etc... Thanks to my live-in lover!!!!!
If you have an opportunity as said, then go ahead and enjoy every single second of this new love life, I am sure one day you will bend on your knees and thank God for providing you an opportunity in reading my story amd getting my advice......
NP
West Virginia
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Thursday, November 23, 2000 - 10:45 am: |
Dear Shyama: My advice to you is please...DO NOT let your self-esteem and cultural morales be misguided anymore. Especially by those insane women from our own soil and culture who probably have inherited the same family values as we all carry and who are now deliberately attempting to pollute our traditional environment. Person migrated to any western region gets more cautious and becomes more protective about his/her own culture. And this woman from WV feels proud in disintegrating these values... shame on such mentalities. I am sure you are in your mid-thirties and could have better experiences of life than a 22 year old inexperienced woman like me.
As I said earlier, ships of this kind have already sailed..... There is no way you could anchor or bring them back to harbor... From our cultural point of view these TWO women [AK & NP] are morally dead bodies, please don't shed tears upon them but watch your steps while you tread and keep all respectable options open before discussing your personal matters with your husband and protect your own cultural values. It is also pityful to know that you have two daughters. Just think about them what would they think of you when they find you in that situation. Every problem has a solution, and I am sure you will find one without any difficulty. If successful I'll bet you will never find any third story of this kind from these pages....Bye for now and Good Luck :)
Sarita
| By IVK on Friday, November 24, 2000 - 05:08 pm: |
AMMAN KHERA, NP AND SHYAMA YOUR FRANKNESS AND ACCEPTING THE BARE REALITY IS YOUR TRUE STRENGTH. NOT ALL WILL COME OUT WITH THEIR INNER FEELINGS AND EXPRESS THEM AS WEEL AS YOU ALL HAVE DONE.
TODAY WE TALK OF EQUALITY IN OUR INDIAN SOCIETY. BUT WHEN WOMAN WISHES TO BE TAKEN ON EQUAL FOOTINGS, THEN WE FIND PEOPLE HARPING ON CULTURAL VALUES, MORAL AND MORALITY ETC. PEOPLE GIVING SUCH ADVICES SHOULD LOOK INTO THEIR CONSCIOUS AND ASK THEMSELVES WHETHER AT SOME TIME OR AT SOME JUNCTURE IN LIFE DID THEY NOT COME TO A POINT WHERE THEY ALSO FELT LIKE HAVING A SOMETHING FOR A BETTER CHANGE. BUT COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT SOMETHING IS. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE WORNG. BUT TO HIDE AND PLAY GOODY GOODY IS TOTALLY INCORRECT AND THEY CHEAT THEMSELVES ONLY (NOT OTHERS).
AMAN, NP AND SHYAMA YOU HAVE GUTS TO BE TRUE TO YOURSELF. MAKE BE YOU MAKE COMPROMISES IN SOME PARTS OF YOUR LIFE. BUT YOUR TRUTH AND REALITY FACED IS BESTOWING UPON YOU THE HAPPINESS AND GOOD HEALTH WITH WHICH YOU ARE FAR BETTER WITH YOUR OTHER HALF AND CHILDREN. ACCEPTING THE FACTS AND FOLLOWING YOUR INSTICTS HAVE NOT ONLY IMPROVED YOUR LIFE STYLE BUT HAS INDUCED LIVELINESS IN YOUR MARRIED FAMILY LIFE. IF YOUR HUSBAND AND CHILDREN FIND YOU A MUCH BETTER, COOPERATIVE AND UNDERSTANDING WIFE & MOTHER, THEN YOUR STANDING UP TO YOUR NEEDS HAS RESULTED IN SUCCESS.
MANY IN INDIAN WOMEN IN INDIA TOO (OR IN ANY WESTERN COUNTRY) LACK COURAGE INSPITE OF DEEP NEED FOR A CHANGE DUE TO SOCIAL AND MORAL STIGMAS (WHICH MAY BE OBSCURE AND ABSOLETE).
TO END : "BE TRUE TO YOUR SELF AND OBEY YOUR CONSCIOUS AND NOT KILL IT AND BECOME MISERABLE AND SERVE MISERY TO PERSONS AROUND YOU".
| By Anonymous on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 03:28 am: |
Sarita and NP,
After reading your diametrically opposite views, I am more confused than ever... I do know that I have an urge to explore and have my needs satisfied. Sarita, you seem to imply that this is somehow wrong, and that it reflects poorly on me. Also, I do not understand about me abandaning my desires for the sake of my daughters. Naturally, I want them to be happy in their future life, as much as I want to be happy with mine. I sincerely hope they (along with me) find a husband who spends time and attention with them. I feel that this has nothing to do with how I choose to live my life.
NP, I am glad you found a helpful partner who can give you the confidence and strength you need. I am really happy for you, and I hope your sense of fulfillment is long lasting. It seems that unless I find a man who can support me and provide the strength I need, I should just leave my needs as just a fantasy.
| By Shyama on Sunday, November 26, 2000 - 09:19 am: |
Sorry, the previous Anonymous post was by me.
| By dude on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 01:09 am: |
I live a happy family life with my husband and kids in Dubai. My husband is dark, tall, handsome. Though there is a 11 years gap between us. I work in a reputed firm and holds a good job with all convenient facilities. For the past few years my boss has been trying to draw lines accross me , I mean gestures like keeping hand over hand, eyes to eyes and taunting remarks showing his interest in me. I have been ignoring all this for 6 years, though I report directly under him. Of late I find myself attracted very much with him. I don't know the reason. My husband satisfies me. He is jolly too. Though there are ups and downs. We get over quickly and loving again. But may be only a little less romantic. This boss seems to be interested in music, arts and enjoying life. He has high regards to me too and shows concern. He sings arabic / hindi songs looking at me, smiling...I really get attracted to him and carried away. I have started to imagine being filmy with him all the time. My whole body aches for him. I am 33 years old. I have sex with my hubby..thinking its him!! I cannot forget him either. I meet him daily. Each day..I say my novena prayers at office to get control over him. His very male voice electrifies me over phone. Though he is very much interested if given a chance..he has lost hopes after his long years trial, he is very busy at work and shows has nothing got to do with me sometimes. But sometimes..when he has a bit of spare time, he tells all worldly praises to me. When I meet him ..I forget what I prayed .. !! What shall I do? Please help me urgently. I have literally started to fall head over heals in love with him at this age...Love and sexually too.. Quiting work is not practical. How shall I react to his gestures and get control?
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 02:54 am: |
"dude":
Your story reveals an impaired sense of your maturity. As claimed you love your husband and more important he "satisfies" you in bed then what else you want?? You are being provided what a woman should expect from her husband and on the other hand you didn't indicate any sign of your husband's inclination towards cheating on you....this itself endorses that nothing is WRONG with your husband. But something is definitely wrong with you or you need to grow up!!! Your crush on your boss and your prayers gone unanswered as you listen to his voice or appear infront of him clearly highlights the passions of your committment to a possible infedility.
What I would suggest you is to discuss this matter with your husband. I am sure you both will come up with some sort of positive solution. Also you should control yourself and limit your interactions with your boss upto office businesses only. This will give him a clear message and he himself will draw a line for his own limits. If it still continues then leave this job and find another one to protect your piety. If you initiate responding to his signals and encourage his advances, then this will cost you a lot.... lady!!!
Also, I suggest you to meditate and ask these questions with your own heart. You may find several posts on these pages that would suggest you otherwise...They are all hooked up to what they believe.... if you want to be one of them, then just go ahead and ignore my words... or else do what you and your husband would come up with your mutual discussions......Good Luck and So Long!!!
Sarita
NJ
| By crazy guy on Monday, November 27, 2000 - 07:42 am: |
live and let live
| By NP on Tuesday, November 28, 2000 - 07:16 am: |
Sarita:
This is just enough of your 12th century old publicity...Get real!!!! The world has changed, old traditions have worn off, we have already stepped in a new mellinium. Women are now gathering courage and getting out of their man-made cubicles. They want to breathe in their own air. No matter who they are and what soil or background they belong. They want to stabilize their existence and lead a life that provides them a real satisfaction. When men are not satisfied with their wives they start peeping other windows and nobody even cares in noticing their infedilities. If woman on the other hand attempts to use the same formula, people start raising their fingers their eyebrows and whatever...a miniature incident of ours becomes a talk of the town.
I am 25 year old mature woman and other women appearing on this site too sound dignified and responsible. You may be sexually satisfied with your husband but we do not....We are not proud for what we have done or been doing but we say we could get in our world what we couldn't achieve from the socalled SOCIALLY NOTIFIED resources or husbands. You are 22 year old young lady and anyone can guess how much life experience one could get at this age...KEEP your cultural trash with you Sarita..... Just be at your semi-adult age and continue to grow in the new world don't behave like a 92 year-old NOSY GREAT GRAND MOTHER ....be a friend or remain like a bystander...
NP
West Virginia
| By dude on Thursday, November 30, 2000 - 05:37 pm: |
Hi Sarita
Thanks for your advice. I am fully aware the consequences...cost as u said. Yes, it is for that he is after me. The problem is me getting attracted to him. Meditation..u think will draw my attention away from him? how? I will meditate of 15 mts. and I am with him 8 hours. My hubby is of old mentally type (not blaming him). He is a practical person. He usually watches television and goes to sleep after food. Jokes and have fun with kids and friends and with me sometimes. Our topics and interests are differnt. He is with news and politics all time. Can read 3 newspapers too. Might be this..is the prob. If it interests me and I really have this person, I know not for long run...just to enjoy the romantic person..I love hi too. then? To forget him...searching a job elsewhere is impossible and cannot survive here without a job.
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Saturday, December 02, 2000 - 09:19 am: |
"NP"
Your venomous words portray a picture of your own personality that otherwise reflect an image which speaks for itself. I now understand that I was wrong in voluntarily solicitating my views and attempted to provide unauthorize guidance to visually impaired like you. I should have understood this fact quite earlier that individuals like you are those arrows that have already flinged out of bows and no one even dare to stop them. I also believe that I need to grow, atleast to an extent where I could easily have identified women of your kind at first step....You and your supporters are entering in a new phase of life and in an environment of a new millenium with experiments that have been considered as foremost profession of "prostitution" that was initiated several thousand years ago.....Only difference is they did just for earning two squares of bread and you know better what you intend for???? Anyway....both 92 year old nosy great grandma and 22 year old semi-adult young woman are now out of your way..........Good Luck and sleep around!!!
"Shyama" "Dude" and whomsoever hiding around in the closet!!!
I regret for my earlier advices to you ....You all are mature and responsible women. Just do whatever you feel best in your interest.....Good luck and enjoy your future encounters!!!!
Sarita
NJ
| By Dude on Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 01:19 am: |
Dear Sarita,
I appreciated your earlier advice too and needed your help on how to meditate...or I would not be here to seek your advice again. This is a biological want, which have to be controlled due to the some (may be) reasons I have asked for. Prostitutes (Yeeee!) its really (Yakky) to termed such words here. I thought you have basic good moral values, like I do. Remember, such wants can happen to anyone in life at any time. If you are married /or not, I don't know. We women, if have had tht time to sleep around as you said, we would not have time to ask your advice too. Women..I thought would help each other by sharing some opinions and help with each others feelings...But, you are here , it seems to criticise others and think high about yourself than to help. Thank you!!
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Tuesday, December 05, 2000 - 10:05 pm: |
Dude:
Thanks for the note....I really was disgusted for a while on reading a response from another "web-mate" (I don't want to name name that person). Seeking someone's advice is a humble gesture but considering that advice is an option, this is up to the person whether or not to accept these suggestions.... I also do know that my reference to that 'word' was categorically insane rather being immoral, but people leaning towards infedility would rather surpass all moral bounds and let themselves considered at some point in their lives as professional. I really didn't intend this for you or any other decent individual out there.
Your case doesn't look as complicated as you think... Only thing you need now is self control, self determination, respect of yourself and your family. Your husband seems to be a decent person whose social activity is limited to reading newspapers, watching television and entertain with kids. You need to talk to him about your expectations, desires and whatever personal matters you would like to discuss. Also, during your off hours at home or work, meditate for a while and focus on your self-respect....Ask yourself certain questions and see whether your insight will allow you to do so what you intend for?
Women sub-consciously are very tactful in controlling men. If you are determined enough, then your boss will get the message. This whole thing will end in a peaceful way and you will save your job too.....
By the way and FYI, I am married to a very handsome and successful young man that I adore and appreciate myself for being his life companion.
Good Luck :)
Sarita
NJ
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 06:10 am: |
Sarita,
Are you Guyanese?
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Thursday, December 07, 2000 - 09:34 pm: |
Anonymous:
Is that really important??? To me, persistant efforts and pursuing to be a good human being is the most important need for any society, and I want to be one... By the way my answer to your question is "NO"
:)
Sarita
NJ
| By raj on Friday, December 08, 2000 - 01:49 am: |
Hey sarita y do u adore your husband? Because he's successful and handsome? Boy thats superficial. If he was dark would you still think he was handsome?
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:31 am: |
Raj:
Your assumptions carry no statistical significance, but it's very true that my husband possess "lot more" than these two significant qualities and we both feel very proud and fortunate enough to be made for each other.....I don't want to share my personal views with you for categorizing any individual by any superficial criterion...You better ask this question to yourself and find an answer...
Good Luck "buddy" :)
Sarita
NJ
| By NP on Thursday, December 21, 2000 - 10:04 pm: |
Hey folks:
Let me tell you something miraculous that happened to me since I started my new adventure. During the days of my continued seclusion, I have been undergoing through a tremendous amount of psychological depression. As a result of this I lost a lot of weight, apetite and facial charm. I was even diagnosed with eating and sleeping disorders and the hell knows what else.
As I mentioned in my previous posts, since I started physical relationship with this live-in "angel" I mean the friend of my husband, I don't know exactly what happened to me that had changed the whole physiology of my body. Now I can eat well, sleep enough with lots of sweetest dreams ever and also have recovered the weight that had been lost. It was so amazing and incredible change in my life that is so unbelievable.....I would say this was a real"miracle" in my life and this infedility of mine has turned out to be a wonder 'blessing' for me....Now again I have been attracted to my husband and my dual phases of relationships are doing extremely well..... So ladies, if this could change my life it would definitely work for you too......just give a shot! bye....
NP
West Virginia
| By Raj on Friday, December 22, 2000 - 11:23 pm: |
Whoah! NP you are awesome. thanx to you i have finally seen the light. Now guess what, instead of rationally talking about my feelings with my wife, im just going to do something much easier. Have an affair. But why only with one woman? How bout a whole bunch? Perhaps i can have my own harem so that i can get my pleasure? Thats not wrong is it? My family life will be awesome as i'll have a wife who i am decieving and all the while i will be having mistresses who im porking and hence living out my hedonistic and animilistic fantasies through. After all we humans are animals right? with no control over such carnal things as sex right? hahahahahha you are the most pathetic slut i have ever come across! My condolences to your husband who has to live with a classless amoral slut like you.
| By NP on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 02:57 am: |
Mind your own business Raj. This post of mine was intended for ladies and I shared my thoughts with them... not with a jerk like you!! Should anybody have any questions in this matter be your wife... Let her get back to me and I will teach her how to remain pious in husband's good book and enjoy sexploration at the same time simultaneously......Pass this message to her and wish her good luck......OK???
NP
West Virginia
| By Raj on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 05:55 am: |
Nah...consider yourself alone on that one my cheap whore. NO respectful woman will do that to her husband and family. The ones who do it have a special name: slut. Thats the category you fall into now after u cheaply prostituted your body to some man and succumbed to your carnal emotions. All this in lieu of just discussing what your feeling with your husband. SO by your decree, if my wife is not satisfying me, i'll just sleep with every chick i run accross right? perhaps the grocery clerk in safeway? how bout one of those hot bank tellers? Or better yet, how bout a little action with all the female bank tellers in a little group activity? Hmm...? By what your saying that would be perfectly ok right? After all im nothing more than an animal and hence i can roll around in the hay with countless partners and get quickies and have one night stands all day long decieving my wife. I wont bother telling her a thing, nah..too much work when u can get laid in a storage closet right? hahahahah your really pathetic, my prayers to your husband, who like any other male should cut your throat for your infidelity and lack of convictions. Just think when u have a daughter and she gets married. Would you be ok if her husband is conducting "hot sessions in bed" with some tramp since your daughter is not fully satisfying him? Double standards, gotta love em. Hey u role around in the hay and live out your tramp-like fantasies, the cultured indian women who are really having problems will sit down with their husbands and discuss and try actively to solve it instead of acting rashly and indulging in sluttish behavior such as yourself.
| By An Irishman on Sunday, December 24, 2000 - 10:27 pm: |
NP,
You said, "As I mentioned in my previous posts, since I started physical relationship with this live-in "angel" I mean the friend of my husband, I don't know exactly what happened to me that had changed the whole physiology of my body. Now I can eat well, sleep enough with lots of sweetest dreams ever and also have recovered the weight that had been lost. It was so amazing and incredible change in my life that is so unbelievable.....I would say this was a real"miracle" in my life and this infedility of mine has turned out to be a wonder 'blessing' for me....Now again I have been attracted to my husband and my dual phases of relationships are doing extremely well..... So ladies, if this could change my life it would definitely work for you too......just give a shot!"
I cannot believe what a cheap whore you are.
You need to re-evaluate your method of living,
and see if it conflicts with what is expected
of normal, rational human beings. Also, check
to see if animals even engage in this type
of sickly behavior. How dare you use the
word "miracle" to describe your disgraceful
behavior.
This mess you have created may seem good now,
but you just wait! It will soon spiral out
of control into a living nightmare....just like
it has for countless people in time immemorial.
You are a disgrace to the human race, you slut.
| By rr on Monday, December 25, 2000 - 06:41 am: |
Raj,
I agree with you about NP. No woman should betray her husband and the commitment she made to him. And certainly no woman should be PROUD to have done so and recommend this route to others. I personally believe that infidelity and deceit, no matter how sweet at first, will ultimately destroy a person's marriage and family. NP may think that this affair has built her confidence and improved her health, but what will happen if her husband finds out? or her lover leaves? or one of her sons discovers? or she gets a STD? These are serious risks, and even if NP thinks nothing of the immorality of her actions, she should consider these. The best route, as you suggest, Raj, is for her to actively try to solve the problems in her marriage with her husband.
Raj, although I agree with your opinion of NP (but not necessarily with the language you use to express it), I find your criticism of her interesting. Are you the same Raj who wrote the following on another board?
"we [desis] bone your [white men's] women effortlessly and then settle with a beautiful pure indian girl . . . HEres reality, your future wife will probably have lost her virginity to some desi guy while i will be settled with a cultured desi girl. On the side of cos i will be having a white mistress, perhaps your wife?hahhahaaa"
If you are the same person who wrote the above, you seem to hold double standards similar to those you accuse NP of.
| By NP on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 - 04:52 pm: |
Raj and Irishman:
First of all try to get yourself some training in manners, and then learn how to respond to a message. Following to this try to make an appointment with a neurologist and let this expert figure out whether or not any part of YOUR brain was damaged that has resulted in turning both of you idiots into "two neurologically impaired maniacs".......
When you are treated properly and once your neurologist/psychiatrist have certified the behavioral improvement in your characters try to concentrate on my following note......
It is easy to utter a word "slut" from your filthy mouth, but have either of you ever tried to figure out the circumstances that lie behind the whole scenario? If a man is not satisfied in bed he holds his wife responsible for this whole mess. Instead of talking to his life partner or fixing this matter with mutual understanding, he finds other ways out and tries to get shelter between the lustrous boobs and thigs of "escort service"....On the other hand if a woman doesn't get the same from her man and if she has been neglected in the name of tiredness, business, weakness .....etc. for 365 days of an year what a woman should do???? You and your supporters would say "hey...talk to your husband.....My answer is "yes" I tried every possible attempt to convey him about this and tried to talk to him whenever I felt necessary....but as I said in my earlier post...sex (that too "quicky") is listed last item in his day-to-day activities....We have no parents or older relatives around who I can share this problem with.....my girlfriends were helpless either.....As a result I had gone into numerous psychological disorders that had ruined my health and I had been negligent towards my kids too before I met this wonderful guy in my own home, who to me is a blessed incarnation for my earlier good deeds. He knows the "buttons" and is a master in pressing them with perfection. He satisfies me atleast three to four times in each session and make feel like heaven. To me it looks like all emotional debts that I had incurred during my entire married life have been paid in full with interest and late fee....By the way, he was virgin before involving with me, and am confident I am the only woman in his life rightnow...so there is no question of STD and other scares....
Now tell me all you folks and for instance put your feet in my shoes and answer this question........
what should a woman do when all doors of her emotional needs were closed and there remains no legitimate way for her possible rescue??? If you still think I am wrong, just give me one genuine reason and I will remain thankful to you for the rest of my life.
And you double standard "raj" and sub-standard "irishman" don't be so confident that your own wives are happy in beds with morans like you, may be there is something going on in their lives and in thier own closets .........Goodluck for them and bye!!!
NP
(West Virginia)
NP
West Virginia
| By Samanta on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 07:48 am: |
Hey! Keep up the good work NP, I honor your boldness and salute your courage and determination. You are in fact have emerged as a solitary "voice for liberal woman". I am happy that a candle of hope has been lit. Hope the process will continue to propagate.
| By michoo on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 12:51 pm: |
NP,
I do not deny that a woman's needs are the same as a man's. I do not also deny that there are fewer avenues available to women for venting their passions. What I do object to is the deceit involved. I think you should tell your husband that since he refused to perform his duty, you have found other avenues. If what follows is a divorce, so be it. You are an adult, you have weighed the pros and cons, and made a decision. You have enjoyed the fruits of that decision. Now also have the maturity to bear the consequences of that decision.
Please note again. I am not saying that it is wrong to sleep with another man. I am saying that it is wrong to keep this a secret, and to continue the relationship with your husband as if nothing happened.
Every marriage involves compromises. If you don't want to make those compromises, fine. But be honest and break the relationship, rather than trying to have everything (in your case a stable marriage as well as sexual gratification) in a deceitful manner.
Regards, and wish you the best of luck.
| By Raj on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 11:17 am: |
hahah lemme guess samanta your another one of those pseudo slutty psych major chicks who "profess" your chastity yet roll around in the hay at the drop of a hat? dont worry ive met your types, and you "liberal" ones certainly live up to your name, hahaha to the pleasure of all of us desi guys.
RR- it was a joke to get under the skin. I wouldnt engage in such cheap behavior.
NP- my my, i was under the impression that most desi women who have kids have little to no sex drive at all. Damn..guess i was wrong, usually there is always bitching from the male side about not getting any.hahaha had u goin didnt i? See just because your hubby doesnt satisfy a hot blooded vixen like you doesnt mean you can get off and engage in trampish behavior. Honestly, because of lack of sex your health was going down?!daaamn...
| By NP on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 06:28 am: |
michoo: I have no idea what your gender is? Let me ask you a question; when a husband goes out with other women and commits adultery, does he share his experiences with his wife???? I bet nobody gets an affirmative answer in this situation. So why you guys are so bothered when we women follow the same guidelines.
Dude!!
I am sorry that I read your post but couldn't respond in time. When you already got a chance to experience a new relationship with your boss, why don't you just give a try? I heard these arab national are very sexy and very well know the secrets about women's sexology. Give him a nod when opportunity itself knocks on your door!!
NP
(West Virginia)
| By michoo on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 06:07 pm: |
"...when a husband goes out with other women and commits adultery, does he share his experiences with his wife???? ... so why you guys are so bothered when we women follow the same guidelines."
Translation: You accept that what you are doing is morally wrong, but you are defending it on the ground that all men do the same thing.
Ok, that's a good start, accepting that you are wrong. Now, my next point. Forget about "all men", or "90% of all men", and answer this: Does your husband cheat on you? The answer to _that_ question should be the basis of all your actions, not statistics about how many men on average cheat on their wives. _You_ got married to _one_ man. He doesn't treat you well, so the honourable thing to do is to walk out and seek sex from outside. _Absolutely_ nothing wrong with that.
If you can't live with his lack of sexual interest, you must live without his money, family, home, security.
P.S. I'm a guy, and I am equally intolerant of guys committing adultery, and my messages would have been exactly the same if you were a man. It's nothing to do with men vs. women, it's to do with what is correct.
| By Shyama on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 10:19 pm: |
NP,
It's been a while since I visited this discussion. I see the male perspective from Raj and Irishman. In going through the posts, it is clear that men (at least the two that have posted) get so worked up about women seeking their needs from outside their husbands. I do agree that your situation is unstable. I am not sure how long you can continue your relationship with this person. Why is he staying at your home, for this extended period of time? What does your husband think about him staying? Is he a relative of a friend of yours? And, do you plan on telling him about it? Also, have you had any sexual encounters with your husband after you started your exploration with your partner? And would your husband be open-minded about you keeping your friend just for sexual needs while you attend to being a good wife and mother? Also, doesn't your friend want to see some finality in the matter? If you leave your husband and want to marry your friend, will he be prepared to do so? Or, is he in it only until he gets bored of being with you and leaves you to find a more permanent partner? Also, do you believe his mental makeup is altered anyway, to the point where he may not have a healthy emotional and sexual relationship with his future woman? In other words, are you not guilty of using him? After all, he is "virgin" and is human, and men have emotions too.
As I mentioned, I had an opportunity last month, when I was alone with my husband's friend. I wanted to start something, but was afraid of the long term consequences. So we maintained a platonic relationship and left it at that.
I hope I am being reasonable with my questions. When I posed these to myself, I found that I could not reconcile all these aspects before indulging in this. I know I am neglected, but it seems like there is no easy solution. In some sense, I feel like I need to sacrifice what little ego I have, self identity and self worth, in order to get my needs satisfied by my husband. It feels like I have to forget about all the emotional hurt that my husband has caused, put up with all the neglect and junk that he piles on me, and love him and be good to him in bed, when he is not concerned about my well-being outside of the bedroom.
Raj and others, if you will notice, I refrained from using labels and words which you seem to resort to. Some of these have far deeper meaning in society and may signify an over-reaction on your part. I will not respond if you choose to resort to such language. If you care to continue a conversation with me, and if you value a response from me, please refrain from using them. I would rather engage in a civil discussion than get into a name-calling match.
| By NP on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:28 am: |
Samanta: So sweet of you!!! thanks for your words of encouragement...you really made my day.
Michoo: You sound like a gentleman and your analysis too falls in a reasonable category. But I never ever said that all or 90% of men are involved in infidelity business, neither did I claim my actions are not immoral. This was just a food that satisfies my "starvation".. Now coming to the point of my husband's role....Yes! I repeatedly have noticed suspicious behavior in his actions. I discovered numerous lipstick imprints on his jackets, cheeks,chin and lips while he returned home drunk, noticeable smell of "channel" "poison" and variety of "Estee Lauder" fragrances emitting out from his attires...what else you need to prove my claims?? But despite all this mess I love him.....even more than ever since I started my new experiment which is a temporary healing phase of my sexual frustrations...that's all. When we love each other somuch, then where does this question of walking away from his life arises??? I need both my husband and "the angel" for my satisfaction.
Shyama: I thought you were on my side...and now all of a sudden you started talking like our 22 year old "great grand mother - Sarita"....what happened to you?? is everything OK with you???
NP
(West Virginia)
| By Dumb yankee on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 12:39 pm: |
NP, could you •••• my dick over the internet you filthy slut? Yeah right, I'd be trying hard to piss instead of cum.That would pronably turn you on though wouldn't it. Typical Yankee Jerry Springer •••••. Why are all Americans (even the Indians living their) so absolutely lacking in basic morals?
| By Raj on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 09:17 am: |
hahah she probably will take u up on your offer yankee, be careful what u ask for. This np slut probably has stds or something from all the screwing shes been doing. What a dysfunctional family, the husband fucks around with other women and NP does the same as well. Her kids have excellent role models. Because that diseased •••• sucker is having affairs is no excuse for u to be out rolling in the hay. Why dont u get a vibrator or something so that your health doesnt deteriorate. Or why dont u actually talk to your husband about his lack of fidelity and resolve this situation once and for all. If he doesnt change, leave the fool and marry this guy your screwing, then u guys can continue your "hot sessions in bed" without any problems. Or why not just get a job? Sounds like u have way too much free time at home.
| By AQ on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 09:36 am: |
TO NP and other critics,
I am a 26 years old happily married man, well accustomed with south east asian culture. Firstly, I think nobody has the right to criticize somebody on any action which he has not experienced as he is not aware of its charm. And specifically using dirty language about that person is shameful. Those guys who are criticizing NP, Aman Khera etc. and spoting lights on Desi culture must be knowing that using shameful words about anybody is extremely unethical, do our culture encourage it?
Sexuality and its adventures have nothing to do with one's origin. Either its there or not there. I myself know many married woman who want to experience it since they are not satisfied with their husbands or they just want to experience the charm of it. But they are not doing it, not because of their cultural or religious bindings but out of fear.
I think we should appreciate NP, Aman Khera for atleast being courageous and since they are doing whatever they wish to do. They have atleast the courage to come up and face this world.
| By Raj on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 01:32 am: |
The courage of being trampish and slutty, i can safely bet that most men and women would not like to see that aspect of american culture rear its ugly head in our time tested indian culture.
| By Yasmeen on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 02:46 pm: |
I guess you cant read this board without having a reaction of some sort. Looking at it from a purely moral point of view and not from religion/adultery etc why would you want to sleep with someone else just because the man you loved and your husband wasnt satisfying you enough in bed. Maybe he doesnt realise that he doesnt cut it for you maybe you should tell him and be honest about it if your needs arent met. And if he says that he feels his needs arent being met then both of you should discuss it and maybe compromise or at least aim for middle ground or something but going around sleeping with men behind your husbands back is not going to solve the problem not to mention what sort of example it would be for your children. The same goes for married men who sleep around.
| By Manjula on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:57 am: |
Hello Readers:
I have been following these posts for a while and upon analyzing varied responses, I offer my brief version. In my opinion this young woman NP did not do anything wrong. She was neglected and was deprived of what she was supposed to get. She tried every measure to communicate with her spouse and ultimately on finding no way for her rescue, she opted for this gifted or unsolicited arrangement.
If you go back to our ancient vedic culture, you may find a bunch of references in "Sashtras" and "Vedas" that support to what we call "committing adultery". Not to mention the teachings of "sage" in kamasutra overwhelmingly encourage this phase of sexuality that no one could deny of. If this has been an ancient practice for over thousnds of years, then why you people got offended all at once when someone come foward and dare to share her experiences. This doesn't by any means reflect her ill-morality or create any bad example upon her own offsprings. This is just a chastity that enabled her in bringing back her lost health and mental satisfaction.
When one couldn't get any food or good food at home, then he or she has every right to go out or order for home delivery to satisfy the need. And this issue technically falls in the same category.
| By AQ on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 04:36 pm: |
TO Yasmeen,
Let me tell you, this problem is not a linear one and there is no just one straightforward solution for every case. I think, sexual desires and satisfaction level varies from individual to individual. Therefore whatever you suggested to every man or woman who is committing to cheat his / her spouse cannot apply to every situation.
Every individual has his own level of satisfaction and if he / she is not satisfied with his / her partner he / she has three options. Firstly have a chat with your spouse and if still the problem persists get divorce and get married to the person of your choice. This option is really impractical specifically for a woman to adopt, since you must be aware of the status, which our south east Asian society gives to a divorcee. At the same time this option is very difficult to adopt for those who are having kids, do our useless subcontinental cultural values support these people?
Second option is to carry on with the same lousy life. I think if one’s level of sexual satisfaction is high and if he / she is not getting it through his / her partner it will become very difficult for that person to fulfill other duties as well whether at home or at office. Even in some cases that person can loose good health, and even can turn into a psycho. Most of the women in our south asian society opt this not because of being religious or having enormous cultural values but out of fear. They just become unpaid servants for their husbands.
Third and seemingly most safe option (until you are caught) is to have sex with another man or women while being still married to the same person. Mostly man opt this as it is the most enjoyable thing since you are having a variety in sex and in some conservative environments they give a damn whether their wives know about their doings or not. On the contrary, women who are considered to be less important creatures in our so-called valued culture cannot do such things so openly. Mostly they opt to cheat their husbands and the rest of the world to fulfill their body needs.
Another important aspect of these situations is that most of the people just get bored of their monotonous routine sex life even if their partner is satisfying them. They are interested in exploring new adventures in sex which is obviously possible with another person since everybody has his own way to have it and if their partner is not interested in those adventures. There can be many multidimensional reasons for this problem and I think going into the details will start a new debate.
Now, I think we should face the reality and give a thought to this subject. We will definitely come across with certain logical findings which can open our minds and can help others.
| By Yasmeen on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 01:55 pm: |
Manjula if thats the case then maybe NP shouldnt have got married in the first place. If you're married to one guy then thats the commitment that you make to that person. NOw if you're not married you could sleep with whoever you choose. If sleeping around is important to you then dont commit to one person.
| By vas_a on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 01:25 am: |
Shyama:
For some reason I liked your approach.
But having said that, can you give me some more details., like what is the kind of neglect that you underwent ? Did this husb's friend reciprocate your vibes, how long do you think you can control your desires (if you have any) for him ?
If you need to communicate in pvt then we can exchange emails if necessary.
Thanks.,
vas
| By Manjula on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 02:35 am: |
Yasmeen: I think the explanation for your query has already been posted by some reader just above to yours. My response to you wouldn't be different from what had been given. Matrimony is a "socially orchestrated soap opera" that certifies your relationship with mass approval. Marriages neither provide you guarantee for your happiness nor endorse the satisfaction you deserve.
In NP's case she has been provided with everything what a woman derserves, except the one she had to arrange through some other means. You can't leave your spouse or ruin your family just for only one missing thing? Women don't know about their own sexuality before getting married. The urge for more satisfaction arises later in their lives. If they don't get complete satisfaction from their primary source, then they start hunting for more. The intention behind the whole scenario is not as you refer "sleeping around" but exploring the ways in keeping herself emotionally satisfied and keeping the family intact in husband's secured environment.
| By NP on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 04:20 am: |
Hi folks:
I just returned from a wonderful trip to New York City with my live-in angel ( I mean my husband's friend). My husband as usual has been out on a business tour to Europe. He specifically advised me to go take his friend out for sight-seeing as he was not expected to return any time soon. Taking this as advantage and a 'blessing' for my unknown good deeds, I dropped my kids at my mother's place and took this hunk around north east. We stayed together for around three full days and Oh My God!!! this was the most amazing time of my entire life, each and every minute of which worths a million bucks!!!!!
Thanks to those wonderful people who now have started to pen down their voices in my support. I really appreciate your words of encouragement, specially to you Samanta, Manjula and AQ.
Anyway coming to your criticism Yasmeen! I had no intention of any kind before I got married that someday I would have been involved in a relationship of this kind. My thoughts were orthodox like yours, but you know "necessity is mother of inventions". And as I mentioned in my earlier posts, I am not different thatn any model wife or mother out there. My husband is happy with me and I am obedient to him and to all my other in-laws as well. My kids love me very much and so do I. Nothing has been changed since I got involved in this. I have enough commitment to my hubby and I respect him with anybody around me. I knowingly ignored all his extra marital laisons and he knew about this that I know. These things you know Yasmeen are not premeditated. It occurs at once and all by natural means ...one thing led to another and here I am... I don't know whether or not you are married, but take words granted...ALMOST ALL MARRIED COUPLES COMMIT ADULTERY AT SOME POInt IN THEIR LIVES....Think it over and see for yourself....bye!
NP
(West Virginia)
| By rr on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 06:34 am: |
NP,
I do not support adultery, but I'm curious about your situation and how you justify it.
Does your husband know about your affair? Like I said before, I don't support adultery, but to me there is a difference between an affair that your partner knows about and one that is a secret. In either case, you have not kept your commitment to be faithful to him, but if your partner knows about the affair, then you are not deceiving him.
What will you do if one of your sons discovers or suspects your affair? As a mother, this must be a serious risk you are taking. I'm just wondering what you will teach your children about faithfulness, commitment, and marriage and how that correlates with your actions.
What if your lover leaves? Surely this is a possibility: he hasn't made a commitment to you like your husband did. He may not live in your home forever; he may decide to get married; he may want a family of his own one day; he may take a job in another city. If any of these things happen, you may be heartbroken...and right back where you started with your husband.
| By PK on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 03:27 am: |
NP,
Were you intimate in public during the New York trip? What would happen if you run into a family friend, and they found you in a compromising situation, or do you not care? Is your mother approving of your secret friend? Do you not feel like sharing any of this with anyone besides this internet forum? And if you do, how trusting would they have to be? If you do not share this with anyone else, isn't that a difficult life to lead?
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| By Anonymous on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 10:57 pm: |
I think men go to prostitutes to satisfy their urges so what is wrong if women are having affairs with decent men .Men are spreading AIDS like wild fire in India because they go to prostitutes.Women are innocent victims of it.With Indian men ego is a very big problem. Many women develop psycosomatic problems because they donot get real satisfaction from men. These are experiences, as body ache, headache, anxiety. They cannot discuss these problem with anyone. Men thing that women should be alright because they bring money home and hence there should be no complains.Indian doctors are not trained in psychiatry during their undergraduate education and hence miss out on these problems. Women donot discuss their problems freely with the doctors.Husbands think there is nothing wrong with their wives. They need to respect their wives and discuss everything includind sexual maladjustments.One of the biggest problems is lack of communication and sex education. I think many Indian women are unaware of sex education before marriage. Even the men have wrong type of sex education. This can solve lots of problems. Intially, the men are very active sexually but with time they slow down where as women become more sexually active with time and they need more from the men. Many men also take their wives as granted and become romantically less inclined with time. Then come the children also. Many women become less physically attractive to men and hence men lose interest also and hence flings with other men become common. The other men show interest in them and these women get the attention they need. These other men also flatter these women inorder to get sex from them. The bottom line is communication. Western women use vibrators also to intensify their sexual experiences. These vibrators can help lots of women.I am Indian man. At least I have seen one of the Jat family in my village where one wife was shared with 3 brothers. This thing was quite common in old days. It was done so that the family land (property) was not divided amongst many relatives. I think as a result there were few children incase they shared one wife.It was common also if the eldest son died his wife could marry the second son.I have seen under the personal columns (hotmail) where many married women are looking for young boys (aunties) or for men using internet or wife swapping.Women are not afraid to use internet to satisfy themselves. Many are having affairs with their servants or drivers too.
| By NP on Friday, January 12, 2001 - 03:36 am: |
rr and PK:
Mine is just an experimental phase of sexploration. I know it is purely temporary and would last for few more months or so. I don't care if anybody would find this out. My husband, in-laws and my mother are all broad-minded people and they trust me. They don't mind if our family girl hangs out with a guy from known families or vice-versa. Also, my kids are being raised in a very good environment. We hired a well trained and experienced nanny who takes good care and also their grand parents are always there for them. Believe me my kids are in very good hands.
As far as matter regarding sharing my views with anyone beside this forum is concerned, I in fact discussed this whole matter with my best girlfriend. When she found herself helpless in providing me with any advice, she suggested me about this forum and here I am......Any questions?????
NP
(West Virginia)
| By Aishu on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 07:45 pm: |
Hello everyone,
It is good that women are able to voice their opinions and able to talk about their sexual dissatisfactions and what not. If you really are that brave and open, why don't they have a talk with your husbands about it first and keep your wonderful encounters between the both of you rather than pretending to be the most modern 21st century women in the world! Go and face your problems at home with the people that are really important to you rather than making a spectacle in front of people who don't give a damn about you. And then you tell people "Please, go and learn some manners?" Well, well Ms.Modern Women, if you are so brave and courageous- go have the courage to tell your husbands that you are sexually dissatisfied with them and that you would want to separate on those grounds. And let us see your true courage then!
And those of you who claim to 'love' their husbands and just want physical satisfaction from elsewhere- find out the meaning of marriage and love first!
I know I am going to get alot of 'It is none of your business' bullshit- but if it truly is just yours, then why the hell did you put it up? Just so that you could be called Slut, ••••• and other-wonderful names?
| By AQ on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 02:19 pm: |
To Aishu,
In my previous post I have highlighted certain alternatives for a women to adopt if she is not satisfied with her husband. In that post I have already spotted light on certain other reasons which drive individuals to commit extramarital sex. So please go through them first if you haven’t, I think that post is a good and sound argue against your suggestions.
As far as bravery is concerned, nobody is debating on whether these women are brave or not. Please let me clear this to you, if one is not satisfied with her partner sexually, this may cause serious mental disorders especially in case of woman.
In this male chauvinistic, and conservative society women cannot even open their mouth when their parents get them married to some unknown individual, how can they dare to talk about their sexual desires with their husbands. And even if they do so what do you think the husband is going to give this a serious thought. If he doesn’t then I think the situation will be worse than before.
| By Anonymous on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 12:58 am: |
If women are having sexual problems then I think the couple should see a counseller. I think many people are judgemental on this site. Rather than trying to understand the problem they are trying to be judgemental. I admire women who talk opening about their problems. The Indian men can only about the problems faced by their women folk if these women come and discuss it on this site. Men can have sex but when women have it they are called sluts .......
| By Aishu on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 06:11 pm: |
To AQ
So is your suggestion to everyone who has a fear of talking to their husbands is that they should cheat on them and that is allright provided that they should not get caught? First of all this situation of sexual dissatisfaction does not only arise in women it arises in men as well. And if one of the suggestions that people can give is that it is allright to cheat on your partner, whoever it is male or female, as far as you are not caught, is fine, then why do we consider marriage so sacred? And you are telling me about mental disorders caused by sexual dissatisfaction? What about the fear of being caught and the guilt of cheating on your husband? What about the influence it would have on the children if they ever find out and what are you going to teach them? Is that how you would want the world to continue? About being narrow minded and broad minded everyone has their own lives and right to do as their please. But there were certain rules and guidelines for living not made by you and me but made by God, in the name of religion and I don't think any religion teaches you to violate the institution of marriage, to commit adultery and say- I think it is right and I feel that I am doing the best for myself. But in the end if that is what you want to do, then go, ahead and be proud of becoming a free liberated women who makes choices for her own benefit. Then no one should complain about moral degeneration in the world when you could very well be one of those who were a participant of it.
| By AQ on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 02:49 pm: |
To Aishu,
No religion in this world supports adultery or cheating, I appreciate. Religions impose certain rules and regulations on its followers. These rules and regulations are closely linked with each other. According to my experience, majority of people picks certain rules and regulations from their religion, which are supporting their deeds or statements but neglect those, which are not supporting their wrong doings. Religion gives its follower a comprehensive way of living, ethical behavior, humanitarian spirit. It does not only stop you from extramarital sex but also from many other things, which leads to extramarital or premarital sex. Do you know what happens, we violate our religious laws, do whatever is satisfying the whole world and our corrupt society. As a parent we are just interested in our useless traditions and culture and our wrong commitments which are going to affect the whole life of our child. Most of the marriages in our south Asian society are just compromises to fulfill the commitments or paybacks of our elders. Which religion supports that a Punjabi can only marry a Punjabi or a Rajpot can only marry a Rajpot? Which religion says that if a girl wants to marry somebody of her choice then the male members of the family should consider it a dishonor and kill her or kill her emotions? Which religion says that woman is inferior, she has no right to choose her life partner, no right to enjoy her life, no right to raise her voice? No one supports these activities but out of their drawing rooms they practice all that which I have already mentioned above. Please don’t think that I am a female right activist, I am myself a happily married man but still aware of whatever is going on around me and if some thing is going wrong around us I think we should atleast denounce it. Women in our society are considered to be a commodity. She has to sacrifice firstly for her parents, secondly for her husband and in-laws and at last for her children.
Obviously, in rural areas women can bear these sorts of human right violations since she is not educated or may be she is not aware of her rights. But in big cities where she is exposed to city life, strong print and electronic media, frequent interaction with males, definitely she is going to take some concrete step which may be turn out to be wrong in the long run. I think you are an adult and you must be aware of the intensity of sexual desires a male or a female can experience when a person from opposite sex whom he / she likes provide him / her an opportunity for a secret relationship. Being an educated person I think we should try to go for root cause analysis of any problematic situation. The people who are involved in these activities are well aware of it that no religion supports these activities but still they are doing it, why?
Best Regards.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 11:40 pm: |
COVER STORY
He Sleeps Like a Baby
An odd admixt ure of mama-fixation and macho posturing makes the Indian male a lousy lover
In hushed whispers at girlie gatherings, in the confines of clinics and in agony aunt columns, the Indian woman is at last complaining that her countryman makes a lousy lover. No longer bashful, she is talking about how inadequate her man is in the 64 acts that Vatsyayana had prescribed.
The old ascetic, who's own 'knowing' of women was rather non-tactile and clinical, listed 24 virtues which would make men well-versed in the "science of love". They should, he advised, do things women enjoy, know their (own) weak points and be liberal. "When a boy begins to woo the girl he loves," advises Vatsyayana, "he should spend his time with her and amuse her through various games and diversions fitted for their age and acquaintanceship, such as picking and collecting flowers, weaving garlands, cooking, playing dice and cards." He should shower her with gifts. "In short," says the creator of our own ars erotica, "he should try in every way to make her look upon him as one who would do for her everything that she wanted to be done."
But look at the Indian man. He is single-mindedly interested in the yang privileges. This makes him insecure and jealous about women he loves or seeks to love. He is a gawky suitor. He believes that there can never be a purely platonic relationship between a man and a woman. He thinks love is sex, and sex only. "The Indian man has not been taught to respond emotionally," says Delhi-based writer and painter Manju Kak. "They are not conditioned for love." Agrees Anu Sharma, a 45-year-old Delhi-based single woman and journalist: "I don't think they are at all aware of how to make a woman happy—like hugging you or being tender, talking late into the night or going out for a walk after making love."
Not just in the agonised responses of his frustrated female counterpart, the cold data that maps the profile of the Indian sexual male is also pretty dismal: he starts late (losing his virginity at 20 years, 8 months, compared to 16.4 years clocked by the male in the US, according to a recent global survey by condom company Durex) and spends most of his hormonal years preening in primate fashion, crotch-scratching and inarticulately ogling. His sexual hobbies include bottom-pinching and whistling at anything remotely female; his craft does not extend beyond breast-mauling and flattening his mate in a raging-bull fashion. Sure, he likes women, but his greatest love is mummy dearest. When the spotlight is on the mantra of health, vigour and vitality, he can wink-wink, nudge-nudge and be counted upon to provide a robust mix of the three. He is smug about his performance. Words like chauvinism, selfishness and insensitivity don't ring a bell. And if a study is to be believed, every three out of 10 Indian males "learn" about sex from Hindi movies. It's his own pizzle's satisfaction he is concerned about even while having a partner in bed, an organ-fascination which outlasts his neo-natal years. Agrees Shashank D.Samak, founder chairman of the Pune-based Kama Research Institute of Scientific Sexuality: "Nearly 90 per cent of men who visit my clinic are concerned only with their organs. The number who seek guidance to maximise a woman's sexual pleasure is negligible."
The Indian male's psyche, more and more women are realising, is hopelessly primitive. Marriage only worsens matters. Says Vidya Kalyanam, a 37-year-old Chennai-based homemaker, of her husband of 14 years: "Sometimes, I feel he can't make out whether I am a female form or just a pillow."
The reason is simple. For the Indian man, sex is just the act of coitus. He is, in the words of a harried housewife, a "sexual loner". In his youth, he is in a hurry to conquer and married adulthood grants him maximum opportunity and constant availability. Ergo, he doesn't care to go through the preliminaries or the afterplay. Says Delhi-based businesswoman Cheryl Talwar: "The Indian male thinks wine and dinner is foreplay." He could turn out to be disgustingly unhygienic too. "I knew of a man who wouldn't even wash his hands after dinner before lunging at his wife," adds Talwar. Sexologist Paras Shah, who works with the Sannidhya Institute and Research Centre, Ahmedabad, found in the course of his practice that "there has not been a single man who has shown interest in afterplay which is very important to women".
This is the national male profile, give or take a few good men, according to Mumbai sexologist Saroj Gumaste, whose paper 'When Women Say No' made news at a sexology conference in Calcutta two months ago. Gumaste insists this is not a rural phenomenon. The new Indian male is still the old cave man in a sharp suit, his skills woefully drooping before the expectant new Indian woman. Prita Bhatlekar, a 29-year-old interior designer in Mumbai discovered the same to her disappointment. "We've never had sex in the four years of our marriage. Initially his attempts failed and the anxiety made it worse. He refuses to seek counselling thinking it a sign of weakness."
For those who say sex is in the mind, Gumaste also spotted a technical flaw: "The average holding capacity of men all over the world is about 30 minutes. For Indian men it's seven minutes." No wonder, Gumaste concludes, half of India's ever-married women never experience orgasms. The upshot is failing health. Since the neurotransmitters that lead up to an orgasm remain unutilised in the woman, thanks to her hasty man, such deprivation causes pain in the back and hips. Before she realises it, the woman begins to avoid sex as she associates it with pain, says Gumaste. Don't baulk at the number of housewives who turn to religious devoutness to sublimate natural desires. "In fact, many of them claim that they reach a kind of orgasm during frenzied puja chantings and devotional song sessions," she says. Similarly, those who claim that Indians are having enough sex in absence of many entertainment opportunities—look at the population of one billion people and rising—hardly stop to ponder that the quality of the union is touching the nadir.
Many sexologists claim that the Indian male doesn't have the faintest idea that he's got it all wrong. "The Indian man has not been taught to be a good lover," says Narayana Reddy, founder of the Dega Institute of Sexual Medicine, Chennai.
Family and upbringing, it seems, have conditioned the Indian man to be on 'top' and make his 'need' more important than his mate's."No one has to tell him how powerful he is, he gets that knowledge with his mother's milk," says Jerry Pinto, author of Surviving Men, where men talk about their relationships. Mollycoddling and utterly spoiling him in comfort, mummy never taught him to treat his lovers with love and care. Not surprisingly, in spite of their bluster and apparent cool, nearly half of Indian men still turn to moms when it comes to choosing a bride, according to an online survey of 2,000 men conducted by Cosmopolitan magazine recently. Witch-turned-author Ipsita Roy Chakraverti concurs on the oedipal streak saying, "This also affects their performance in bed, influenced by lack of initiative and what-will-mama-say-guilt." Take the case of Anu Sharma. One of her lovers told her after making love that he had "lost his character". So she started "wearing saris and bindis and keeping Karva Chauth (fasting for husband's well-being) so that he could feel comfortable about making love."
Making it easier for Indian men to ignore their women—67 per cent of the respondents in the Cosmopolitan survey admitted they were selfish in bed—all this while has been the social conditioning of their women. "The Indian woman has never been in a position to be demanding," says Pinto. "Hence men have used women as masturbatory devices. Their pleasure comes first, hers is incidental." Take the case of Imelda Tellis of Pune, a 28-year-old homemaker with a child, who has turned totally fatalistic. "My husband is a busy man and when he returns home, he wants his sex. As there's no love in the whole thing, I don't achieve orgasm and he really doesn't care," she says morosely.
To be sure, the biggest handicap facing the Indian man is his pathetic sex education. The Durex survey found that a measly 5 per cent of our men are taught sex education in school. If he fails, which only means erectile problems and never his incapacity to please his woman, he knocks on the quack's or the sexologist's door for a quick fix so that he can get on with his business. "Most men refuse to come with their wives for a joint consultation and most often plead with me to prescribe them energy tablets or Viagra and other sources of instant gratification," says Reddy. Instant gratification is easier today: four brands of desi Viagra are available now with neighbourhood chemists.
No wonder the ignorance of Indian men can sometimes turn out to be shocking. Two years ago, Deepak Charitable Trust, a non-governmen-
tal body in Gujarat, conducted a survey in and around Vadodara district among workers, majority of them diamond cutters. A sizeable number revealed a prevalent fear of masturbation and blamed the 'affliction' on general weakness, possible impotence or the drying up of semen and even vertigo. The men revealed that visit-ing brothels was a lesser evil than masturbation. (An international conference of sexologists recently revealed that Indian men spend a staggering Rs 40,000 crore every year on sex workers, 30 per cent of whom are under-age.) Delhi-based psychologist and columnist Sujatha Sharma reveals that the queries she gets betray amazing ignorance—including an amazing "I-don't-know-whether-I-am-inserting-my-member-in-her-vagina" to dissatisfaction with the size, length and shape of the organ. In Mumbai, a fortysomething man who turned up at sexologist Prakash Kothari's clinic complained that he had not consummated a 22-year-old marriage "because he used to try making love with his legs outside the woman".Kothari recounts another man complaining that he couldn't climax. "He had been 'waiting for climax' after entering a woman and lying still atop her." Then there is vacuous penis-anxiety in most. Vikram Sharma, urologist at Delhi-based Aashlok Hospital's Alpha One Andrology Centre, says of this nagging concern: "I am yet to see a man who is completely happy with his size."
Growing up on a diet of third-rate porn in grainy movies, magazines, and now a glossier version on the Internet, which glorify sexual athleticism rather than emotional bonding and promote exaggerated bravura over conquests, sizes and frequencies, it's not unexpected to find our young men sexually maladjusted. The most common result is premature ejaculation. Says urologist Sharma: "It is a typical but complex scenario beginning with furtive and quick masturbation in the bathroom which lasts for two or three minutes. Over the years, the system gets used to these quick ejaculations and this later translates into premature ejaculations." It's one of the biggest bedroom blooper in India, agrees Shah, who runs a website on impotence. "Most women tell me that their husbands are in a hurry and climax even before the woman is ready."
Racing ahead in life and work often adds to the dysfunctional male lover. "The Indian upwardly mobile male turns workaholic in his interest to make money. Corporate executives especially are conditioned to win. So even a single failure in the bedroom ends in their avoiding sex altogether," says Reddy. Occasional impotence due to stress or other factors is perceived as a death sentence by the Indian male. "Most men are paranoid about impotence even if it happens once in a while due to various factors like stress, anxiety or alcohol," says Sharma, some of whose patients have just about veered from suicide attempts over this.
While the number of Ms Beautifuls increase by the year, the Indian man is largely physically unfit. This slows his drive and dampens the ardour of his mate. Says Gumaste: "Sexual performance depends on fitness and physical strength." In a study conducted on 82 couples, Gumaste found only 25 per cent of men managed to perform coitus in the first four days of trying.
All this makes Jack a dull boy in bed indeed. But his ego is always erect, his organ notwithstanding. "My ex-boyfriend wanted to hear that he was King Kong in bed," recalls Mahima Tandon, a Delhi-based export house executive. But new gender challenges threaten the Indian male today: Tandon just junked her boyfriend because she was not prepared to pander him without returns. The age when virginity was gift-wrapped in a Benarasi sari and gold jewellery and presented to the man on his wedding night is now witnessing its twilight years. As long as the woman didn't speak out, the Indian male went about his lovemaking with disarming aggression portrayed by the larger-than-life angry young man on the screen. Now times are slowly changing. Sandhya Moolchandani, writer of The Indian Man, which explores such changes, says: "I don't envy Indian men at this point of time. Their traditional role in society is being questioned. Children are not as reverential as they used to be and the role of the sole bread-winner is no longer theirs alone. Indian men, who were hitherto secure in their cocoons, are plagued by insecurity. Their women have the real option to leave them," she says. Moolchandani, who carried out in-depth interviews with hundreds of couples for her book, feels that the present shift in traditional roles has churned up a new couple as opposed to a new man or new woman."It's a you-and-me-against-the-world kind of bond that's come about now," she says. Rakhi Anand, clinical psychologist at Delhi's Vidyasagar Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences, says: "Very often couples come to doctors complaining of aches and pains that have no organic origin. After a few sessions, we realise that it is their bottled-up emotions that is affecting their sexual functioning."
Not all men agree to acting like self-styled boors in bed. Navdeep Khosla, marketing manager at a travel agency and father of two, snaps: "They (Indian women) are brought up to believe that sex is a duty and all they have to do is spread their legs and lie like a log. I want a woman to want me as much as I do." Sudeep Bhat, a 25-year-old software professional who recently got engaged, only sees the old matron in his new girl. "I have to remind her that she is her own person because she gets so identified with me losing track of her interests."
But the Indian male is possibly the most confused of all: 78 per cent of the Cosmopolitan poll respondents said trust is the most important element of a relationship, but almost 80 per cent of them admitted they cheat on their women!
It helps to voice your warm and amorous feelings.
Don't sleep off. Most women do appreciate a warm and tactile post-coital yap.
Being the more vocal sex, she'd understand your story. Silence would add to the insensitive brute image.
Women are more concerned about chemistry than anatomical stats.
Italians love their moms but they're great lovers. Snip off the umbilicus before you tie the nuptial knot.
Good sex isn't in the genes. To be a good lover you need to observe, learn and read up.
Love isn't the same as sex. A good lover is also one who is in tune with the other person.
It may seem like nature intended only men to climax to make the act seem complete. But women do need the Big O once in a while.
| By Dave on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 12:30 am: |
Hey, nothing wrong with adultery, have sex with as many partners as you like. Chill out, be free and have some fun. The only people who won't like it are those men who are so insecure that they need to use bully-boy tactics to dictate to women.
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 01:24 pm: |
Hi everyone,
Practice safe sex incase you want to have affairs. Many men donot use condoms and hence spread AIDS to their wives and children. So if you have sex practice safe sex even if you know the person.Many men in India look innocent but many visit whores and donot use condoms.The bottom line is whether it is women or men PRACTICE SAFE SEX.
| By tracer on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 03:14 am: |
just wanted to look for post-marital realtionships statistics on the web & landed up here. am amazed, how much i never knew !! gr8 job, indiafamily.
Sarita Zeeshan, oh my, u seem to be an xtremely sensible woman. 3 cheers. such a level of wisdom at such an age is not easily found.
| By gee on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 04:44 pm: |
Tracer
Sarita Zeeshan is Guyanese. Guyana Indians are very smart and outstanding. Just look at the schools, they always do better than any other Indian group.
| By tracer on Thursday, March 29, 2001 - 09:59 pm: |
gee
spare me this cultural/ethnical superiority stuff.
isnt there..doesnt matter. not my cup of tea.
FYI, I guess she wrote she isnt.
ps: why this lull over here ? have people stopped cheating on their spouses ;)
sarita, NP, AQ, Shyama, rough Raj where've all gone ??
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 01:26 am: |
Hi Tracer:
So sweet of you guys for remembering me, I didn't go anywhere. I was just following up this forum's updates and was analyzing quietly that how far this woman 'NP' could go with her shameless obstinism. By now she might have either gotten her message or must have realized that she was wrong on her choices.....
Sarita
| By NP on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 09:05 pm: |
Hellow Guys and specially my rival Sarita Ji:
Thanks for recalling my earlier participations. I never felt wrong for my sexpiditions and by no means be considered obstinate. Sarita! You were probably exhausted in your pursuit or had run short of your cultural trash that made you disappear from this forum. I am and had been existing here to provide guidance to those sexually frustrated women out there who just need some guidance and materialistic support to start their own adventures....
NP
(West Virginia)
| By Sarita Zeeshan on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 12:51 am: |
I have nothing to offer for you at this time, but I will pray for divine guidance and betterment for all those women who believe in your philosophy. NP I have just one thing to say....JO HAATH ANGAARAY KO JALAANAY KE LIYE AAGAY BADHTE HEIN ANGAARA UNHI HAATHON KO JALA DETA HAI....
Sarita
| By Yaqub on Friday, April 13, 2001 - 10:10 pm: |
love to here some feelings from loving friends
| By Guy on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 07:22 am: |
Hello everyone,
It is very interesting to read the various response and comments. It only becomes a sorry state when people start getting personnel and start abusing. I think it will be interesting to read various opinions as along as they are decently put. Speaking of Indian culture and religion. We are always taught to respect every one’s views and religion.
I would not want to judge what NP or Aman have done. But can only say that one must review their situation from time to time. Step back and give it a hard look. Some time one is so caught in the whole affair that one is not able to think about the situation right.
Life is to be enjoyed and there are risks one must take……..
Good Luck….
| By Proud-Jut on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 04:22 pm: |
The Post-1947 Brahmanist Order and its Ideological Foundation
by Dr. Singh
Hindu nationalism and the founding ideology of the post-1947 Poorbia Brahmanist Order are derived from
historical fraud spun by late 19th-20th century Brahmanist idealogues and organizations (e.g. Vivekananda,
Dayananda, Gowalker; Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Hindu-Maha-Saba, RSS, VHP, etc.) from the eastern
subcontinent. A new supremacist identity and history (neo-Brahmanism) was invented for the Brahmanist
community (the “twice born” Brahmin/Bania orthodox castes - 7% of "Hindus") by making wild, hegemonic
and fraudulent claims over the history, religions and civilizations of historically separate southasian regions,
nations and peoples. Under neo-Brahmanist ideology, all of southasia under British imperial rule was
fantasized as their 10,000 year old “One Hindu Nation" (Hindusthan) in which the 7% Brahmanists, the
self-styled "superior Aryans", should be the "rightful ruling class".
With the westward expansion of the British Raj, historical propaganda and claims designed to float the
Brahmanists' One Hindu Nation ambitions (really a Poorbia Brahmanist fantasy of empire - "Hindu, Hindi,
Hindustan") were exported to newly annexed regions by Brahmanist ideologues, politicians, socio-political
organizations and schools during the late 19th and early 20th century (e.g. Arya Samaj founded in 1877, RSS
formed in 1925). The pre/post independence national politics of Brahmanist dominated political
organizations, regardless of party or political affiliation, is rooted in the historical consciousness and
hegemonic "One Hindu Nation" ideology and doctrines spawned by Neo-Brahmanism.
The post-1947 India Union is in reality a "Casteocracy" run by the supremacist Orthodox Brahmanical Castes
(OCs: Brahmins, Banias; 7% of "Hindus") or Brahmanists who came to hijack the largest chunk of the former
British Indian Empire in 1947. It has been cleverly run under the ruse of "world's biggest democracy" for the
past 50 years. The supremacist and hegemonic minded Brahmanist cliques completely control the circles of
power and policy of the Indian state. Post 1947, almost all (95%) of the top decision-making and managerial
positions in the country's administration, bureaucracy, state-run media, press, huge state-run economic
sector, universities, army, police, etc. were stacked by Brahmanists who form 7% of Hindus. Intriguingly,
Brahmanists did not have ruling class status or political dominance in any significant country/region of
southasia before the British began creating their empire ("India") during the 19th century.
According to statistics published by reputed Indian journalist and historian Kushwant Singh, the Brahmins
alone (3.5% of "Hindus") control over 70% of the top decision-making and managerial posts of the Indian
State. In 1935, the 3.5% Brahmins held around 4% of the officer positions among Indians in the government.
By 1985, one finds that out of 3,300 Indian Administrative Officers (IAS), 2,376 are Brahmins; from the rank ofdeputy secretaries upwards, out of 500, 310 are Brahmins; of the 26 state chief secretaries, 19 are Brahmins;
of the 16 Supreme Court judges, 9 are Brahmins; of 438 district magistrates, 250 are Brahmins; and so on in
other circles of power and policy in the Indian state. Their state power jumps from 70% to over 90% upon
including the remaining "twice born" Brahmanists.
The facts show that the 7% Brahmanists monopolize the top positions of the Indian state and determine its
policies and actions (e.g. Swadeshi Permit Raj Economics, nuclear testing, police/army rule and oppression
in all majority non-Hindu states, systemic human right abuses of majority "lower castes" and minorities).
Under "Permit Raj" and "Swadeshi" economic policies, only the Brahmanist cliques have been allowed to
invest and enter the new modern and profitable industrial and manufacturing sectors while the rest of Indians
(93%) are tied to the plough, dwindling lands and the unskilled labor market. The country was converted into a
huge "Brahmanist milking cow" through Brahmanist monopoly over the corrupted, rent-seeking and
criminalized beaurocracy, political system and state-run industries while the wealth generated in the private
economy is cornered through Swadeshi Permit Raj Economics. Genocidal state terror and violence has been
unleashed on the populations of every non-Hindu majority state in the Indian Union (e.g. Kashmir, Punjab,
Assam, Manipur, Mizoland, Nagaland, etc.) and communal rioting against religious minorities is an integral
part of statecraft and politics by the Indian Government and Brahmanist-lead political parties (1984 Sikh
“riots”, Ayodhya, 1991Bombay Muslim “riots”, etc.). The Brahmanists’ despised majority (80%) "lower castes"
and Dalits (untouchables) live under constant threat of random police/army violence and torture to keep them
under submission and to discourage them from mobilizing politically.
This is the true hideous, criminal and genocidal nature of the 50 year Casteocracy, imperialistically running
the old British empire and motivated by the hegemonic, supremacist and racist socio-political ideology of
neo-Brahmanism. Unfortunately, Western opinion on events in India has been largely shaped by the
viewpoint of Brahmanist propagandists who control the governmental machinery/political
system/academics/state-run mass media/press/etc. Brahmanists have been extremely effective in
propagating their historical and political mithya and propaganda and hiding, deflecting and scapegoating
India's gruesome realities and the Brahmanist regime’s abysmal failures and tyranny on their victims, lower
castes and religious minorities. Brahmanist emigrees to the west have very zealously adopted the role of
“Indian Ambassadors” and guardians of the honor of their dishonorable Casteocracy and perpetually cover-up
its criminal, corrupted and genocidal nature and spread neo-Brahmanist doctrines and historical fraud to the
outside world.
Propagating the Fradulent "Hindu" Identity - the Chief Weapon of Poorbia Brahmanist Imperialism
The Brahmanists came to power on the Congress elephant by deviously converting the pre-independence
political debate and struggle into a communal Hindu-Muslim religious struggle and propagating their
fradulent "Hindu" identity/nationalism to construct their majority Hindu flock - naturally to be lead, lorded and
ruled by the "superior" 7% Brahmanists (i.e. the Brahmins/Banias clique)! This was made possible by the
master stroke of Mahatama Gandhi - the Hindu nationalist cum holy sadhu - who made "Hindus" a 55%
majority on paper in the 1920s upon getting the Dalits or "untouchables" (20%) dubbed as "Hindus" by the
British. This coup moved the "Hindus" from 35% to a 55% majority in British India. In pre-independence India, Muslims were 25%; Sikhs/Christians/Buddhists/tribals/etc. formed the remaining 20%.
This action, along with recognition of Congress as the sole political representative of all Indians in national
matters, was a payoff by the British colonial authorities to the Brahmanist lead Congress and Gandhi for loyal
services rendered to Queen and empire in supporting their WWI war effort; recruiting the "martial"
communities (e.g. Sikhs, Jats, Rajputs, Gujars of Saka-origin) of the northwest and Muslims to go fight for the
British Empire in Europe/middle east; subduing, opposing, infiltrating and sabotaging other
non-Congress/non-Brahmanist lead political parties and independence movements organized at home (who
saw British weakness during the war as an ideal opportunity).
The 55% fraudulent "Hindu pile" was little more than a political game of Brahmanist politicians and political
parties in Delhi while orthodox caste Hindus (7%) would not eat/touch/marry/socialize or even worship with
their "polluted" Dalits (20% untouchables) in the 1920s. After this "victory on paper", Brahmanist politicians,
political parties, and organizations totally communalized pre-independence politics along "Hindu/Muslim"
religious lines of "nationhood" to get on the road to empire and Delhi. Under the historical propaganda
campaign launched by Poorbia Brahmanist ideologues, organizations and schools since the late 19-20th
century (e.g. "Arya" Samaj, HinduMahaSaba, RSS, etc.), the majority Saka-Vedic people of the northwest has
been largely brainwashed into becoming the loyal and obedient inferior "Hindu" flock of their Brahmanist
(Brahmins, Banias - 7%) masters, overlords and "Netajis".
Ironically, despite all the Poorbia Brahmanist historical mithya and fantasy, the self-proclaimed "highest
caste" Brahmanists cannot name and date even one ruler of the northwest over its 3500 year known history
since the start of the Vedic period (1500 BC); in the 50 years since 1947, there have been 6 Brahmin Rulers!
Prior to annexation by the British in the 19th century, the Sakas had regained their historical power (500
BC-1200AD) and the entire northwest and west was under Saka rule and political domination: Sikhs (Lahore,
Patiala, Nabha, Kashmir), Jats (Bharatpur, Dholpur, Agra, Bhawalpur), Rajputs (Rajputana), Gujars (Gujarat,
western MP), Marathas (Maharashtra). Further, the terms "Hindu" and "Hindusthan" were first imposed on
southasian nations and regions by the Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; these terms were never
used in southasia prior to the Muslim era and are not even found in early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical
or Buddhist texts. These terms and concepts have no "historical depth" in any social, religious, ethnic or
national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori for the first time named his conquered domains
in northern southasia "Hindusthan" and his subjects "Hindus".
What did Ghori's "Hindus" call themselves prior to the 12th century? The chatur-varna ideology found in
gangetic Brahmanical texts only views society in terms of "inferior and superior" castes (jatis) with separate
religious, social and legal rights/privledges; there is no notion of a common religious community, nation or
people in Brahmanical holy texts! According to Brahmin Law Givers, the "lower caste" Sudras (80%) were "too
polluted" to be seen fit to even enter their temples, worship their devtas, and learn their religious scriptures.
Their holy texts repeatedly “forbid Brahmins” from travelling to the northwest Vedic-Saka country. The region
was independent from the rest of southasia over 90% of its 3500 year verifiable history and pursued its own
unique and separate ethnic, historical, political, religious, linguistic, and cultural evolution.
| By Proud-Jut on Friday, May 04, 2001 - 04:29 pm: |
The Post-1947 Brahmanist Order and its Ideological Foundation
by Dr. Singh
Hindu nationalism and the founding ideology of the post-1947 Poorbia Brahmanist Order are derived from
historical fraud spun by late 19th-20th century Brahmanist idealogues and organizations (e.g. Vivekananda,
Dayananda, Gowalker; Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, Hindu-Maha-Saba, RSS, VHP, etc.) from the eastern
subcontinent. A new supremacist identity and history (neo-Brahmanism) was invented for the Brahmanist
community (the “twice born” Brahmin/Bania orthodox castes - 7% of "Hindus") by making wild, hegemonic
and fraudulent claims over the history, religions and civilizations of historically separate southasian regions,
nations and peoples. Under neo-Brahmanist ideology, all of southasia under British imperial rule was
fantasized as their 10,000 year old “One Hindu Nation" (Hindusthan) in which the 7% Brahmanists, the
self-styled "superior Aryans", should be the "rightful ruling class".
With the westward expansion of the British Raj, historical propaganda and claims designed to float the
Brahmanists' One Hindu Nation ambitions (really a Poorbia Brahmanist fantasy of empire - "Hindu, Hindi,
Hindustan") were exported to newly annexed regions by Brahmanist ideologues, politicians, socio-political
organizations and schools during the late 19th and early 20th century (e.g. Arya Samaj founded in 1877, RSS
formed in 1925). The pre/post independence national politics of Brahmanist dominated political
organizations, regardless of party or political affiliation, is rooted in the historical consciousness and
hegemonic "One Hindu Nation" ideology and doctrines spawned by Neo-Brahmanism.
The post-1947 India Union is in reality a "Casteocracy" run by the supremacist Orthodox Brahmanical Castes
(OCs: Brahmins, Banias; 7% of "Hindus") or Brahmanists who came to hijack the largest chunk of the former
British Indian Empire in 1947. It has been cleverly run under the ruse of "world's biggest democracy" for the
past 50 years. The supremacist and hegemonic minded Brahmanist cliques completely control the circles of
power and policy of the Indian state. Post 1947, almost all (95%) of the top decision-making and managerial
positions in the country's administration, bureaucracy, state-run media, press, huge state-run economic
sector, universities, army, police, etc. were stacked by Brahmanists who form 7% of Hindus. Intriguingly,
Brahmanists did not have ruling class status or political dominance in any significant country/region of
southasia before the British began creating their empire ("India") during the 19th century.
According to statistics published by reputed Indian journalist and historian Kushwant Singh, the Brahmins
alone (3.5% of "Hindus") control over 70% of the top decision-making and managerial posts of the Indian
State. In 1935, the 3.5% Brahmins held around 4% of the officer positions among Indians in the government.
By 1985, one finds that out of 3,300 Indian Administrative Officers (IAS), 2,376 are Brahmins; from the rank ofdeputy secretaries upwards, out of 500, 310 are Brahmins; of the 26 state chief secretaries, 19 are Brahmins;
of the 16 Supreme Court judges, 9 are Brahmins; of 438 district magistrates, 250 are Brahmins; and so on in
other circles of power and policy in the Indian state. Their state power jumps from 70% to over 90% upon
including the remaining "twice born" Brahmanists.
The facts show that the 7% Brahmanists monopolize the top positions of the Indian state and determine its
policies and actions (e.g. Swadeshi Permit Raj Economics, nuclear testing, police/army rule and oppression
in all majority non-Hindu states, systemic human right abuses of majority "lower castes" and minorities).
Under "Permit Raj" and "Swadeshi" economic policies, only the Brahmanist cliques have been allowed to
invest and enter the new modern and profitable industrial and manufacturing sectors while the rest of Indians
(93%) are tied to the plough, dwindling lands and the unskilled labor market. The country was converted into a
huge "Brahmanist milking cow" through Brahmanist monopoly over the corrupted, rent-seeking and
criminalized beaurocracy, political system and state-run industries while the wealth generated in the private
economy is cornered through Swadeshi Permit Raj Economics. Genocidal state terror and violence has been
unleashed on the populations of every non-Hindu majority state in the Indian Union (e.g. Kashmir, Punjab,
Assam, Manipur, Mizoland, Nagaland, etc.) and communal rioting against religious minorities is an integral
part of statecraft and politics by the Indian Government and Brahmanist-lead political parties (1984 Sikh
“riots”, Ayodhya, 1991Bombay Muslim “riots”, etc.). The Brahmanists’ despised majority (80%) "lower castes"
and Dalits (untouchables) live under constant threat of random police/army violence and torture to keep them
under submission and to discourage them from mobilizing politically.
This is the true hideous, criminal and genocidal nature of the 50 year Casteocracy, imperialistically running
the old British empire and motivated by the hegemonic, supremacist and racist socio-political ideology of
neo-Brahmanism. Unfortunately, Western opinion on events in India has been largely shaped by the
viewpoint of Brahmanist propagandists who control the governmental machinery/political
system/academics/state-run mass media/press/etc. Brahmanists have been extremely effective in
propagating their historical and political mithya and propaganda and hiding, deflecting and scapegoating
India's gruesome realities and the Brahmanist regime’s abysmal failures and tyranny on their victims, lower
castes and religious minorities. Brahmanist emigrees to the west have very zealously adopted the role of
“Indian Ambassadors” and guardians of the honor of their dishonorable Casteocracy and perpetually cover-up
its criminal, corrupted and genocidal nature and spread neo-Brahmanist doctrines and historical fraud to the
outside world.
Propagating the Fradulent "Hindu" Identity - the Chief Weapon of Poorbia Brahmanist Imperialism
The Brahmanists came to power on the Congress elephant by deviously converting the pre-independence
political debate and struggle into a communal Hindu-Muslim religious struggle and propagating their
fradulent "Hindu" identity/nationalism to construct their majority Hindu flock - naturally to be lead, lorded and
ruled by the "superior" 7% Brahmanists (i.e. the Brahmins/Banias clique)! This was made possible by the
master stroke of Mahatama Gandhi - the Hindu nationalist cum holy sadhu - who made "Hindus" a 55%
majority on paper in the 1920s upon getting the Dalits or "untouchables" (20%) dubbed as "Hindus" by the
British. This coup moved the "Hindus" from 35% to a 55% majority in British India. In pre-independence India, Muslims were 25%; Sikhs/Christians/Buddhists/tribals/etc. formed the remaining 20%.
This action, along with recognition of Congress as the sole political representative of all Indians in national
matters, was a payoff by the British colonial authorities to the Brahmanist lead Congress and Gandhi for loyal
services rendered to Queen and empire in supporting their WWI war effort; recruiting the "martial"
communities (e.g. Sikhs, Jats, Rajputs, Gujars of Saka-origin) of the northwest and Muslims to go fight for the
British Empire in Europe/middle east; subduing, opposing, infiltrating and sabotaging other
non-Congress/non-Brahmanist lead political parties and independence movements organized at home (who
saw British weakness during the war as an ideal opportunity).
The 55% fraudulent "Hindu pile" was little more than a political game of Brahmanist politicians and political
parties in Delhi while orthodox caste Hindus (7%) would not eat/touch/marry/socialize or even worship with
their "polluted" Dalits (20% untouchables) in the 1920s. After this "victory on paper", Brahmanist politicians,
political parties, and organizations totally communalized pre-independence politics along "Hindu/Muslim"
religious lines of "nationhood" to get on the road to empire and Delhi. Under the historical propaganda
campaign launched by Poorbia Brahmanist ideologues, organizations and schools since the late 19-20th
century (e.g. "Arya" Samaj, HinduMahaSaba, RSS, etc.), the majority Saka-Vedic people of the northwest has
been largely brainwashed into becoming the loyal and obedient inferior "Hindu" flock of their Brahmanist
(Brahmins, Banias - 7%) masters, overlords and "Netajis".
Ironically, despite all the Poorbia Brahmanist historical mithya and fantasy, the self-proclaimed "highest
caste" Brahmanists cannot name and date even one ruler of the northwest over its 3500 year known history
since the start of the Vedic period (1500 BC); in the 50 years since 1947, there have been 6 Brahmin Rulers!
Prior to annexation by the British in the 19th century, the Sakas had regained their historical power (500
BC-1200AD) and the entire northwest and west was under Saka rule and political domination: Sikhs (Lahore,
Patiala, Nabha, Kashmir), Jats (Bharatpur, Dholpur, Agra, Bhawalpur), Rajputs (Rajputana), Gujars (Gujarat,
western MP), Marathas (Maharashtra). Further, the terms "Hindu" and "Hindusthan" were first imposed on
southasian nations and regions by the Afghan dynasty of Ghori in the 12th century; these terms were never
used in southasia prior to the Muslim era and are not even found in early (pre-12th century AD) Brahmanical
or Buddhist texts. These terms and concepts have no "historical depth" in any social, religious, ethnic or
national sense past the 12th century when Mohammed Ghori for the first time named his conquered domains
in northern southasia "Hindusthan" and his subjects "Hindus".
What did Ghori's "Hindus" call themselves prior to the 12th century? The chatur-varna ideology found in
gangetic Brahmanical texts only views society in terms of "inferior and superior" castes (jatis) with separate
religious, social and legal rights/privledges; there is no notion of a common religious community, nation or
people in Brahmanical holy texts! According to Brahmin Law Givers, the "lower caste" Sudras (80%) were "too
polluted" to be seen fit to even enter their temples, worship their devtas, and learn their religious scriptures.
Their holy texts repeatedly “forbid Brahmins” from travelling to the northwest Vedic-Saka country. The region
was independent from the rest of southasia over 90% of its 3500 year verifiable history and pursued its own
unique and separate ethnic, historical, political, religious, linguistic, and cultural evolution.
| By karan on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 03:09 pm: |
TO AMAN KHERA
hi, sorry but i dont agree with u coz in jatt families women r given respect...& buddy as being from a jatt family i knew this well anyways waiting 4 some 1........
| By madpumper on Tuesday, June 19, 2001 - 12:09 pm: |
adultery is fine as long as the person you are sleeping with is attractive.. personally, for me if teh woman is pretty and sexy and willing- that is good enough, whether she is married and to whom is of no importance- let the priests and other jobless •••••••• worry about sin.. life is to enjoy
| By yayati on Wednesday, June 20, 2001 - 11:18 pm: |
madpumper,
Pretty and sexy is Enuf.
| By celinam97 on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 07:13 am: |
looking for intimate relation with male/female
| By NP on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 06:10 pm: |
Hey guys: I'm back!!! sorry for keeping you waiting. I was shocked to see the length of a few posts in this forum that are good enough for submission into a seminar talk or a monograph publication. Proud-jut, you may be philosophical to any extent, but nobody bothers in this forum in spending time reading your stupid analysis.... A brief version of any episode is always welcome for readers. Dynsastys, annexations, historial account.....what the hell is this? you better be well off in a history class rather than being in this zone....you moran!!!!
| By human on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 09:11 am: |
y do people get so worked up when they hear tat somebody else is having and affair ??? Really , i think wat a person does in his or her life is only maybe linked to his or her mate. Non of anyone else's business.It's probably this dumb sense of being responsible for the whole world and the idea tat u hav to comment on everybody else, tat drives this senseless quest tat everybody must be the same like urself. People are sophisticated creatures, they can detemine wat they want and dun want. it is up to the individual to decide how to live, as long as they dun impose on someone else.If his or her mate disagrees , even then, it is a situation for them to find a course of action. To the rest of the supposed high council of morality and everything else in the world, pls keep u'r so called distaste to u'rself. Different doesn't have to be wrong.