| By Anonymous on Wednesday, August 04, 1999 - 08:23 am: |
EK CHINGARI KI KHOJ MEIN
Madhuri Velegar K
DIRECTOR: K P SASI
THIS film is an attempt to question values associated with dowry. Directed by documentary film maker KP SASI and scripted by playwright MAHESH DATTANI, the film traces the experiences of two women - one who submits to the pressures of the system and the other, who attempts to overcome them.
The film was produced by Madhyam, the Bangalore-based NGO that creates public awareness and attitudinal change on issues related to women.
| By vinky on Thursday, September 23, 1999 - 01:39 am: |
Dowry is bad but what is even worse are these Indian men in the U.S. who use their status as a resident in the United States to bargain for a bride who is significantly more qualified in professional terms than they are in order to live a life of luxury off of them once these women come to the United States. I've seen mere computer programmers from the U.S. marry physicians in India for the sole reason of being able to use these women as "cash cows" in the years to come. All of you Indian sissies who are doing this should be ashamed of yourselves. Don't you know that the rest of the world views you as nothing more than a pimp? And saying that you need a partner of equal caliber is just an excuse. Nobody is buying it. It's such a shame...where have all the real men gone?
P.S. I'm already married and happen to be an extremely successful attorney so my observation is not baised in terms of my personal experience! Nor is my observation a sexist one...its based on how real life works (or should work at least!).
| By beeler on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 03:27 am: |
Dear himendra and all
Discussion seems to have quieted a bit and hopefully I can interject a few questions. I am an american jeweller beginning informal studies of the jewelry of India with a slant towards women's issues. My mentor in this effort is Oppi Untract who is an international authority on traditional Indian jewelry. His work Traditional Indian Jewelry, published only about two years ago, is the major resource for this information in my field. My goal is to follow in his footsteps. However, there are many gaps in his purely technical approach to the subject. I am more interested in discovering how dowry jewelry is effective in the lives of women in India.
In Untracht's work the practice of suttee is mentioned only as something that was made illegal and their is no mention of dowry abuse or bride burning. I had heard stories of women being killed for their jewelry and bride burning for the dowry. But I thought surely these were isolated events. I am horrified by what I have read here.
I applaud your efforts to change these events and will do my best to work this new information into my life's research. I welcome any personal stories that people might have about dowry jewelry and apologize for my ignorance in this matter.
Thank you
Kristin
| By Editor on Wednesday, January 12, 2000 - 01:34 am: |
Dear Vick
Thanks for your message.
We are moving your message to :
Are Dowry Laws Being Abused by Some Families ? Girls Misusing the Laws for Other Reasons ?
We have heard many cases, where many families are simply misusing the good old laws related to Dowry acts etc. and suing, getting arrested the boy and his family for REASONS beyond the issue of dowry.
It sounds quite bizarre, paradoxical and strange but quite true that such cases are coming to light and there is a certain anger being built up against the abusers of the laws.
The most tragic thing is that such ill motived people are causing a credibility problem for girls families who are genuinely victims of dowry related abuse.
Let us discuss this point. As it becomes very important from the various evidences that some women have created havoc in the lives of some innocent men and their families by falsely claiming 'abuse' when the real cause was totally unrelated and different.
This is a very serious cause of concern for many people and we do consider this part of this discussion.
| By Kailash Mathur on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 11:55 pm: |
Hi all,
I think that you agree that dowry is bad. But how to get rid of it? There are 2 ways.
1. If you are parent of a son then refuse dowry or costly marriage celeberation.
2. Let us start a club, whoose members want to marry but refuse to take dowry or celeberate costly marriages.
| By Sunny Singh on Saturday, March 04, 2000 - 12:32 am: |
Daaj, is the one of the most absurd things in Indian culture. Parents are burdened enough at the thought of losing their daughter. "Daaj Noon Kardio Band Mundio!"
| By Anonymous on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 11:41 am: |
i have a question that i hope someone can answer. what exactly is suttee? i'm getting several different answers from different web pages. someone please help.
| By i know on Thursday, April 13, 2000 - 10:33 pm: |
suttee literally means penis.
| By Lavanya on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 06:11 pm: |
I have been reading the issues of dowry for sometime. Himendra Thakur has given figures of about 25000 women being maimed or killed due to dowry. Have any false police reports ever been taken into account? That is where a bride has been murdered over dowry, but the police don't do anything because the groom and his family pay everyone out. They close the case as a suicide. This might raise the figure of 25000 even higher.
| By SAMantha Robyn Vijay Govender on Tuesday, May 09, 2000 - 06:47 pm: |
Hello
I am doing a course where i am discussing the way Indian myths/rituals and the belief of these have affected the way women are treated in India. Can anyone please tell me which myths relate to:
1. Dowry
2. Bride Burning
3. Widows (who are scorned.. level in society)
4. Sati (fire)
I would appreciate any help.
Please forgive my ignorance. As a South African Christian Indian i have just begun my journey into discovery my 'roots'.
Thanx
SAM
| By Anonymous on Monday, May 29, 2000 - 02:53 pm: |
I am an Indian women and would like to divorce my husband. I cant pay very high fees for this. I was told that it costs Rs. 25,000. This is a very high amount. I am a middleclass irl amd cant pay more than Rs.10,000. Please help me with this.
| By kk on Friday, June 23, 2000 - 06:36 pm: |
It is not the Dowry but the persons greed which kills , the girl is greedy for the boys money else why should she marry a person richer and in a better position than herself and her father , and since she is unable to come up to the expectations in when problem stats and since there is no easy exit policy amoung the lawmakers , which is unduely used by the womens so death / suicide , killing remains the only option.
| By steve on Sunday, July 30, 2000 - 11:17 am: |
what are a guests obligations at a hindu wedding?
we are anglo and have been invited to a very good friends', daughters wedding. we would very much like to have an idea of proper comportment ie. gifts, blessings etc. thankyou - steve
| By Harish Shah on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 09:04 am: |
Namaste,
Ladies and gentlemen,our Hindustani people have never faced a greater enemy or poisoning than the dowry system and the fault arises from the system of matrimony practiced by sadly even the educated who are just so darn plain •••• headed.If you check out history you'll learn that this is not even part of our culture but something brought over by the whites.Friends,Hindustanis,fellow people,lend me your hearts.I say we ban these marriages and sentence to death those parents that restrict their children from loving and choosing their own brides and grooms.We sentence to death those parents that demand dowry.That will do the best ever for our people.Jai Hind.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 09:23 am: |
Enough is enough,
Ladies and gentlemen,brothers in Hindustan,this thing has been around for too long.Lets not waste anymore time.Lets see to it that our women do not have to pay for their grooms any longer.I say hold strikes and protests worldwide.I say hold rallys across the world.Lets flood the streets of every city in Hindustan to force the Hindustani government to pass the law of death sentence to anyone who asks for dowry and anyone who pays a dowry and anyone who abuses a women or troubles her for dowry.I say we do it.Soft words hold no water.Lets throw tyres on to the roads,pour kerosene over them and set them ablaze to stop these •••••••• from setting our women ablaze in hunger for dowry.Have the death sentence passed today.All Hindustanis,I am a youth, a son to most of the Hindustani population around the world,and I am crying out to you all,calling upon u all,to rid this dirt from our race for good,death sentence for dowry hungry beggers and those who give.JAI HIND.
| By aboli on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 03:13 am: |
i do not understand what is wrong with educated indians?....with so much education and working in the united states, they are still entangled in the notion of dowry!....it is not their parents who want dowry but it is the educated man himself who is now out for this !and the girl also gives in to all this without even raising any questions? where have we come? instead of improving...we are going deep down.....when is such peoples attitude and mentality going to change?...when are they going to achieve self respect?
| By adf on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 05:33 am: |
Mine is a story of 'hen came first or egg came first'
I am in the US. I got married to this girl last November. Around the same time her brother ( also in India) got married. But my marriage took place about 15 days earlier than her brothers. During the pre marriage talks with my parents , we were told that the girls side does not believe in dowry. We did not ask for it anyways...but we were given sermons that taking dowry is bad etc etc. After about a month I came to know that the same people who had given sermons to us took a dowry of 30 Lakhs for their son (i.e my wifes brother). I felt very bad about their dishonesty. I dont mean I was cheated...buy they cheated someone else. Since then I have lost all respect for my in laws..which I have also told them point blankly.
And my wife knew this all along...the fact which made me lose trust on her. Her justification was .." U should have insisted on it..why are u cribbing about it now?"....to "Go ask my dad..I dont know..my brother wanted it".
So much for faith I kept on her!
So dowry is not something related to bad men..or bad in-laws...its just plain greed! And greed does not have any sex. Stop beating the men on this. If girls
are so convinced that dowry is wrong...then they should be bold enough to tell this before marriage..and also practice this in their families.
U dont have the right to preach ..when u dont want to practice. I guess we indians are a bunch of liars...hypocrites. Pardon me for the language...but this is a fact. Dowry..corruption ..are all different
avatars of the same devil
| By Anonymous on Tuesday, November 14, 2000 - 12:52 pm: |
Hi ADF,
I donot think you should blame your wife of this. The people to be blamed are her parents and brother. I am sure the parents were very dishonest. I am glad that you had the guts to tell them off. I guess you have got a wonderful wife. I hope this should not affect your relationship with your wife. Hats off to you for not demanding dowry. You have set a good example for lot of people. See the positive side of it. There are good and bad people everywhere. So cheer up !
| By ADF on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 07:00 am: |
Anonymous,
But the law in India does not think so. One complaint from the girl to the police can have the entire boys family arrested! But this incident has not disturbed me much as it has disturbed my wife. She hates me because I tell that her parents and brother are rotten people in front of her! Do U see the duality in your thinking here? U say "I guess U have got a wonderful wife". But would it not be equally possible that my wifes brother could also be a wonderful guy...but had to take dowry at the insistence of his parents? Do U see the difference?
The girl by default is always innocent! She cannot harrass the husband! Its always the husband harrasing the girl. Thanks for suggesting that my wife may be wonderful. I can live in that fools world in the interest of a 'happy married life'...But I strongly feel that happiness is the first casualty once the trust breaks between a husband and wife.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, November 15, 2000 - 09:42 am: |
I was introduced to the word "dowry" several years ago. When my Indian colleague married. Our university department was no longer a pleasant place to do research or work because this colleague of mine was accused of accepting a dowry from a girl back home. Several people, some Indians that he clashed with earlier and two American women, told him he was a bad person at every opportunity they had. I gather from this thread that the reason that he was driven out of the university is that some dowries are collected after the marriage by cruel methods. I find the image of my old friend resorting to violence to collect a debt absurd, I don't think he would even raise his voice. It seems to me that by shunning and making criminals of all who take dowry only raises the potential for violence because they have no righteous way to collect their debts. Why not simply allow dowries but outlaw dowries-on-credit?
-Matthew
| By ADF on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 07:27 am: |
Matthew,
U have a good point here. It should also be noted that in 99.99% of the cases the girls side is told that the boys side expects a dowry of a certain amount. The control exists totally on the girls side to either accept the proposal or reject it. If they dont pay the dowry the marriage just wont take place.
In India the situation is that a boy in US , a Doctor,
an Engineer tend to demand higher dowries ...thinking
that they are 'of a higher category' than other professions. Now the thing is that the girls side can deny giving the dowry ..and go for a 'lesser mortal'.
THIS IS SOMETHING THEY WILL NOT DO. They will sell their house..or properties...and somehow arrange for the dowry.What stops them from marrying their daughter to a bank clerk..or a hotel server?
No law can prevent this greed on the girls side. I think the dowry problem will not get solved unless
the girls side stops giving extra attention to these
US Engineers and Doctors. And also these laws in India which arrest the boy and his family on the basis of just a complaint from the girls side is also useless.
It does not solve the problem instead...aggravates it further.
| By Matthew on Thursday, November 16, 2000 - 05:57 pm: |
Regarding the law, does India have a "presumption of innocence"? If so, it seems a shame that the legislature tries to erode the law's protections out of a sense of their own powerlessness.
Regarding the lady and her family, what exactly is the motivating force for marrying Indian-American professionals? Is it the girl's own hopes? A father's pride? Or am I committing an error in attempting to analyze a whole that is more than the sum of it's parts?
Applying the arrest-on-demand rule would seem to me to have several effects. 1)reducing the size of the dowry...it is easier to hide a small transfer than a large one 2)making debt collections hazardous without
help from organized crime figures and 3)entrenching traditional values even further. The last effect comes from the pressure to select an "upstanding" bride's family that will not renig and ask the police to help.
-Matthew
| By m on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 11:57 pm: |
hi to so many informed people here
dowry is bad and regrettable nodoubt
but how many people talk about he negative aspects of the anti dowry act in force in india to combat this evil practice.
its like "save the cats, let the dogs go to hell",
one complaint "oral complaint" by a crying and sobbing wife in any police station across india makes it mandatory for the police to book the husband and his parents and any other of his relatives/freinds she might care to name immediately without investigations for a period of upto 48 hrs. the concept of investigate and then book/arrest is waived under this act. the cops are dutybound to arrest immediately the husband etc even if he is convinced of their innocence.
there is no recourse to this action by the police which first thing leads to social ostracization, the local news papers have a field day, and even if later the wife withdraws her complaint it is ok, she has compromised. it is the wife who is still the aggrieved party with a policeman visiting the house regualry to check on her welfare.
so so many husbands are living in mortal terror of their wives due to her threat of action under this law.
allshe has to say is i will kill myslef and name u as the reason and the guy is as good as or as bad as a slave in the good old dark ages( no personal civil rights at all) he is then living(existing) at her mercy.
amnesty shud probably take a look at this and they will find a good cause to fight for fianlly.
m
| By jan on Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 12:40 am: |
hi all,
i think the problem is with the indian education system, ok the uneducated may not decide about the bad things about dowry etc, but what about the educated class.the people living in liberal coutries like usa are the one who are fueling this dowry system, nowadays the trend is that people are planning to work abroad for sake of dowry. so pathetic.
Also the very bride search of a person working abroad allows dowry. May be the system will improve with increased access to internet and love marriage ...
-jan
| By swamy on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 07:39 pm: |
I would like to know that if a husband has bought property in his name by selling his wifes property at her native place. And after a few years the husband wants to leave his wife and tries to sell the house then what options does the wife have to stop her husband from selling the house as she has nowhere else to go except for that house.
| By raj on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 12:56 am: |
Hi guys and gals,
I would like to tell u my part of the dowry system prevelent in INDIA. Normally a girl child does not get her share of property when it is divided. So the parents do give the girls share at the time of marriage.
To tell u an example my friend got married three months ago. He hails from a rich family and now is working as a cardiology surgeon in a famous hospital in LosAngles.He got a dowry of 2,50,00,000Rs equivalent of half a million dollars. most of the money he got was either in the form of land or shares which was in the name of the girl. the liquid cash he got was not more than 10,000$.
well that does not mean that i am supporting the dowry system. I am totally against the Dowry System.This has been comming from ages and it takes a while to stop it.
I think government should enact a law that equal share of property should be given to the girl child.I know some states do have this law but no one cares.Apart from this the government should see to it that the girl child is educated so that she can stand on her own. And stringent laws should be maken for harrasment of daughter in law.
Well i would like to tell u some thing more, my parents have been looking for a bride for me for past few months, initially i have insisted that i would not take dowry but when the girls parents heard this they asked my parents if i had some physical weakness or some thing of that sort, beacuse i being a Software engineer and not asking a single penny of dowry they were surprised and as it is said "if u are not with society you are not in the society" i had to take dowry and have got my marriage fixed the next month that is in april 2001.
well guys that was my experience with Dowry. i would like to hear more from u.
-Raj Reddy
| By Anonymous on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 01:53 pm: |
Hi
I too am a victim of dowry. My parents were having some difficulty in finding a suitable alliance for me for the very reason of dowry. The boy and his parents would demand and since I and my parents do not believe in dowry, my father had not taken any dowry from my mother, the proposals were few and far between. Finally two years ago I got married. There was no talk on either side about dowry, and I foolishly thought that I had found the kind of home I wanted. Right from the first day my in-laws, ie my brothers-in-law, sisters-in-law and my mother-in-law began taunting me that my father had not given me any dowry. Now I had been brought up abroad and so they apparently thought that a very large sum of cash and a lot of gold would be given, but my father did no such thing. Anyway I kept hoping that things would improve, and since I was not going to be living with my in-laws, I would not have to listen to their taunts every day. But alas they remote-controlled my husband's behaviour toward me. Through all this my dear hubby chose to support them by telling me to do as his 'family' demanded in order that our marriage could survive. He claimed that he had always done as they told him to and did not now want to go against their wishes. My in-laws wanted Rs.30 lakhs in order to allow me to live with my husband. I lived there for 1 year, and all that time my m-i-l who said she wanted to be close to us slept in between us in our bed, thus preventing even the consumation of the
marriage. Then one day she tried to strangle me because I refused to sit in the same room listening to her abuses. She threw me out and I was forced to come back to my father's house.
I have now filed for a divorce. My husband used to ask me to come back to him, but in the same breath would say that his 'family' would allow us to be together only if my father did as they asked.
Tell me friends, if u or your sister were in my place, would you too have done what I have done ie filed for divorce on grounds of mental torture and dowry harrassment?
| By Anonymous on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 04:30 pm: |
This is a shame if this is a true story. That is the nature of generally of most Indians but there are exceptions.
| By Ahalya on Saturday, June 23, 2001 - 11:58 am: |
Dowry
I am doing a task on Dowry. And i was upset about the "dowry deaths".
Dowry should be forgotten during twentyth century.
it is very shame to talk about dowry in the 21st century.
"Dowry should be abandoned"
| By mindBLOWin on Monday, August 20, 2001 - 03:53 pm: |
DOWRY!!!THATS THE lowest position a person could stoop too! i think its mean..
the girl has to stay with her inlaws after marrige, leaving behind her house and her loved ones,
has to conceive babies, to run the generation,
look after the children, the members, cook, etc
and after alllll this she HAS TO PAY DOWRY?
nonsense!
those who collect dowries are sinners! and they are going to ROT!
| By Anonymous on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 02:00 pm: |
friends.
dowry as a system is to be opposed tooth and nail.there is whole lot of literature to get an idea how young ladies are harrased in their matrimonial home,even burned to death.
but one thing still need to be documented,harassment of husband and his family in the name of dowry laws by the wives.and believe me it is a reality.
marriages are breaking,divorce is a matter of financial settlement between husband and wife.and to grab bigger share in alimony sec 498A IPC is the most useful weapon.
just go to police and say u have been harassed,your husband will be behind bars,a good sourse of exploitation for you and police too.
abuse of this law is abuse of the process of women empowerment,a blot on indian womenhood and in course of time it will result inbreak up of families.the worst sufferer of this law at this point if time is ,apaert from husband,mother-in-law,sister-in-law etc.,mostly women.let me assure you abuse of this law will also result in loss to the women.
a movement is building against abuse of this law.join it.
| By Nick on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 07:55 pm: |
Vicky
Lecturing the rest of the world about pimping when you use your children in contests to win cars (like a five year old can really drive a people carrier) and expensive holidays is pathetic.
There are loads of men, white men in the US, that marry rich women to live of, but since you need to make yourselves look better than everyody else l guess that one will not be mentioned.
| By btg on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 07:28 pm: |
will higher education of women wipe away the age old tradition of dowry, is it the right answer?
give ur opinion