Defining Virginity - Chaste vs Experienced : Pre-Marriage Sex

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Virginity is a concept!
Mainly based on male presumptions.
Virginal is called kumari, chaste, maiden, pristine, pure, unadulterated, undefiled, unspoiled, unsullied, untapped, untouched damsel, madonna or virgo intacta!
Does "the defiled" mean a loss, a depreciation, a delinquency, a moral turpitude, a default, a sin?

Are the definitions of virginity valid in our times?
Indians, some Asians and Arabs are probably only people who are hung up with this phenomenon.

I came to know a doctor in France long time ago, whose speciality was to "re-virgin" the touched. He actually sews the hymen of North African Tunisian and Algerian girls living in France (there is a sizable community of North Africans called Maghrebi - for the region of North Africa Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya is called Maghreb and they speak berber and Arabic ). The guy is so popular that he has many customers coming from all over France and Maghreb.

I have heard stories from India that in our contemporary world, there are many men who actually leave their marriage as annuled because the girl was "deflowered" prior to the marriage; and she didnt "bleed".
They treat a woman as if she was a tin of food, with its intact seal - as a proof of quality?

Is not this a monstrous mental disorder?
Medically proven that many women can "lose" their so called "virginity" while practicing sports, cycling, physical activities and many other reasons.

An intact hymen is not a reliable indicator of virginity either. Some women just dont have much of a hymen. According to experts, masturbation, vaginal tampon can also perforate this sensitive membrane.

The hymen is a structure that gets out of proportion atttention to its 'actual function' - which (biologically proved) - is nothing.
According to a gyn.doctor friend, it is possible for a woman to have activity ten times a day, give birth to many kids, and still have the hymen intact.

Anyway as per my friend, most women can fool and probably do so, with a bit of theatrical act so the logic of marrying a virgin for the sake of her virginity is totally absurd and pointless.

Probably, this was more prevalent in past centuries when the marriage age was typically 13 - 17 years for girls.
Among many not very advanced and uneducated people in South Asia, the young teenage girls are married by their ignorant parents as they consider her a liability and think that marrying her off is their sacred duty.

This sounds so primitive and harsh but gentlemen and ladies, this is a fact of life and a reality even when we are on virtual threshold of 21st century.

While a non-issue in most parts of the world, our clinging to the concept of virginity appears to be absurd.
While i respect all those women who are virgin and feel a satisfaction in maintaining their maidenness; i do think that other women must not be considered whores. This is a stupid idea to desire virginity when the men who usually, 'require' such deals are themselves, quite unchaste.

In ancient time, the virginity was probably more common for reasons of marriage at early age, higher morality, respect for women and girls strong will and less mobility.

Vatsyayana said that following type of women should be avoided for marriage:

-who is kept concealed
-who has an ill sounding name
-who has ner nose depressed
-who has her nostril turned up
-who is formed like a male
-who is bend down
-who has crooked thighs
-who has a projecting forehead
-who has a bald head
-who does not like purity
-who has been polluted by another
-who is affected with 'gulma' (any glandular enlargement)
-who is disfigured in any way
-who has fully arrived at puberty
-who is a friend
-who is a sister
-who is a varshakari (palms and soles always perspiring)

Ok, you can analyse yourself that people married at very young age and had rather puritanical views.
The classical author also writes that his contemporary authors said that propserity is gained only by marrying that girl to whom one becomes attached that that therefore no other girl but the one who is loved should be married by anyone.

Probably Vatsyayana commented on the above list as that was prevalent in those times. He was an analyst and commentator not a preacher. So we should have taken him figuratively not literally but alas for last many centuries men in India have believed that "Physical" chastity is equivalent to high morality.
The essential truth is that Virginity was more a symbol of spiritual purity and integrity of soul.

If we require a female to be chaste, we should also be in that position. Because in modern times, the women are equal to men in most areas. Yet they both are complimentary and should respect each other as such not as rivals or polarities.
Your opinions are most welcome!
Pk Kapila

© 1996-99 To use this article or any part get written permission from publishers


Some other discussions on similar topics @ marriagepartner.com

Age ! When to Marry? Is there a deadline


Age Difference between Marriage Partners!


Polygamy : Many to One or One to Many ?


Arranged Marriage VS Love Marriage !


Marrying a Virgin! Virginity ? Celibacy ?
By Joseph on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 02:39 am:

.....So in this market of "supply and demand", it may be true that at the end of the day, there is more demand for virgin girls, but don't you think when the other gender has progressed in thinking that virginity is a personal choice, you might have a unreasonable demand on hand and could be left behind wondering what hit you?

I think virginity is a personal issue, and sexual preference does not make a person good or bad. There are far more qualities which are more important to consider in selecting spouse than to worry about sexual preference.

Yes, it is probably an important issue for someone who is virgin himself and may feel cheated that while he remaind virgin for someone, why she could not? I think the reason for this thinking is the doubt that if she was sexually active with someone before, than may do it after marriage. Well, that is just a baseless fear. Why? because sexual exploration in teenage and beyound is a natural phenomenon related to hormonal changes, and if it is being explored, it is not because some one is a nymphomaniac or an habitual multi-partner happy woman. Remember, most people have enough morals to dstinguish between pre-marrital relationships and importance of faithfulness in a marriage.

By Dexter on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 06:34 am:

Hi Princess, Joseph, Reality Bites and others:

It was a matter of time that the virginity topic would be brought back into the 'hot' topic discussion again.

Everybody has had very valid points. Reality Bites had some valid points, but he may have misunderstood Princess when she said about she "could tell if a man was a virgin".

I'll admit that I myself also had misunderstood her comment when I first entered in the discussion around March or April.


I was referring back to my past experiences, like everyone else refers to their past experiences to give their own point of view.

And in a way, Princess is right as well. Women from all races and societies know that if a woman is not a virgin or at least just as equally experienced or "more" sexually experienced than her male counterpart, than they already know that she will be either outcasted or labeled as a slut or some other Scarlet Letter-type nickname.

Men on the other hand, are almost permitted, if not encouraged to lose their virginity as soon as possible (or before they graduate from high school). They're not told that they're sluts when they lose their virginity, in comparison to women. It's strange that in 1999 that some men will have the nerve to be upset when they found out that their wife is also experienced as they are, knowing that they will never have to be labeled in a derogatory way after having sex. And unlike women, men don't have to "pretend" to be virginal to keep from being chastised by the community.

That's why many teen and adult males who are still virgins may have this fear about people finding out that they're NOT having sex. In addition, males in society are supposed to be either having sex, or least thinking about it, so folks won't think that they're dysfunctional, regardless of how much self-discipline they have or practice.

For example, A.C. Green, an professional athlete is a virgin. To those of you who haven't heard of him, A.C. Green is a former professional basketball player who used to play for the LA Lakers in the NBA.

Although Mr. Green is respected for being a great athlete and humanitarian, some comedians make jokes about him retaining his virginity for various reasons: 1)He's American; 2)He's black; 3)He's a multi-millionaire, helping his team, the Lakers, to win five NBA championships; and 4)He's 36 years old.

As a man, if you retain your virginity because you're not financially secure and don't want your girlfriend to become pregnant, then that should be applauded. Besides, NBA players and other pro athletes in America, have been in the spotlight recently for having children out of wedlock, and sometimes not giving financial support for the mothers of their out-of-wedlock kids. After hearing this, you would think that someone like A.C. Green wouldn't be made into a joke because of his sexual integrity.


But on the other hand, what is A.C. Green is waiting for? I mean he's a multi-millionaire, so he's financially secure and he lives in L.A.(of all places). Not to make fun of Mr. Green, but how many 30-year-old plus, athletic, millionaire virgins have WE met? What is he waiting for--the next Ice Age? If he's waiting because he's trying to find the perfect woman, he doesn't have to worry. . .if you're a man and you're also a multi-millionaire, you don't have to worry about finding women. Women will find YOU!

I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong for a man or woman to remain a virgin until marriage. In fact, that's the most thoughtful sexual act to give to your spouse, especially if the husband and wife are BOTH virgins. That is a very special gift to give to your wife/husband. It takes tremendous strength and courage to make that decision in this day. . .whether you're in your teens, 20's or even 30's.

My $0.02--and extra change.
Dexter

By Reality Bites! on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 01:24 am:

Another Massive posting from me!

Hi Joseph,

I don't think you really understand the arranged marriage thing. Even if a person (male or female) knows they will have to one day marry by the arranged marriage procedure, doesn't mean that they will necessarily remain virgins til' this time...as a matter of fact many don't.

For example I know a girl who is in a relationship with a boy who is not of the same caste as herself. Now her parents are aware of their relationship and say it is OK, as long as they don't get married as she will have to marry someone of the same caste, by the arranged marriage process. The parents won't think as far as their daughter having pre-marital sex with this 'friend'...they think their daughter is 'too good for that'. This is just to let you know that even in arranged marriages you can never be guaranteed a vigin, if your looking for one.

Arranged Marriages go according to the Indian point of view that young people should avoid sex until marriage, because they are in the Bhramcharya (student) stage. Some Indian families are so strict on their way of thinking that they teach their kids from young to think like them, but everyone will develop a mind of their own, and if they want to lose virginity, they'll go ahed and do it. But those that believe DEEPLY in the arranged marriage system (as much as their parents) would probably abstain from sex and feel very strongly about virginity, they wouldn't even consider the 'other' marriage system. Parents would feel as they've 'failed' if they found a wife for their son (or vice-versa), who they later find out has 'done it' previously. By the way, you said women are progressing...what's 'Progressing' to you?, does that mean that following is a virgin backwards? We all know Virginity is a personal choice, well there's not much that can be done about it, is there?

I didn't say that ALL Indian men prefer virgins wives...I said MOST. This is true because why do you think Indian girls (who are non-virgins) have a problem with it? This can affect their chance of marriage (to someone in the same community). That is the reason many of them have to lie when the question is popped by their partner. If a girl is known to be a non-virgin, chances are people in her community (who knows of this fact) would steer clear of her as far as marriage is concerned. Of course some non-virgin girls can still get married, provided they are careful...or they meet a guy who accepts them for who they are. In non-arranged 'love' marriages this should not be a problem, but it still is amongst Indians. I believe that most indian men would prefer non-virgins because I've discussed this topic with quite a few ppl and it's just what I've observed, so it's not a rediculous genaralisation. However, some did say virginity would not matter much if the girl was drop-dead gorgeous, had a great personality and only previously had sex once, or with one partner...no more....oh yeah...and didn't perform oral sex! ;-)

Princess, you said in your posting that the 'concept' of Virginity has also to do with any sexual activity e.g. such as masturbation, purity of soul, etc...well then I guess that none of us are virgins. I was surprised to say the least. We must've all lost our virginity when we went through puberty. When I was learning sex education in school, the teacher told us that virginity was to do with penetrative sex. She also told us that masturbation was a good way of discovering ourselves sexualy....and now I'm confused! So if almost all of us are non-virgins, then what's the problem? What are we arguing about? argument finished!

The truth is that the majority of people only recognise penetrative sex as the way to lose virginity. When a boy get pressured by his friends to lose his virginity, it means having sex with a girl, nothing else. I understand the way you see virginity as being total purity of the soul, but that's not practical in this society. Maybe the definition of virginity has changed as time has progressed, but the definition I came across after looking in various dictionaries is that a virgin is someone who has not experienced sexual intercourse. The 'concept' however, has more to it.

It seems that a girl (virgin or non-virgin) doesn't mind if the guy she marries is a non-virgin, but with some guys it's the opposite. Everyone doesn't like the type of guy who sleeps around, then demands a virgin when getting married...but what can you really do about it? Rebel?? If every girl sleeps around before marriage will guys be forced to accept them? Well, I think either he'll start doing the same then accept it, or he'll go and marry an inexperienced village woman from India. I've explained the mentality of these guys in my previous posting.

I also understand that the older you are the more embarassing it is being a virgin, as Dexter pointed out with the case of A.C.Green...but you know, he may have some sexual disfunction with him...or may be impotent, or just a low sex-drive.

It's clear to see that Western viewpoints and Eastern Viewpoints do not go hand in hand.

No disrespect intended to no-one here.
Peace!

By Joseph on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 03:48 am:

Hi reality Bites,

Thanks for your insight regarding arranged marriage. I agree that not all people who marry by arrangement are virgin, nor do I say being virgin is a bad thing.

What I am saying is to demand virginity, it is unreasonable in this day and age.

When I say women has progressed in this sense, what I mean is these women are realizing that this age old demand of virgin bride is unreasonable too. Preference to pre-marrital sex has nothing to do with someone being of loose character. On the same token, abstaining from sex before marriage does not mean she is sexually incompetent. IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE, and when it is a personal choice, demand does not work.

Now said that, there are women out there, virgin and sexually active, by their own choice, who probably have so many other qualities guys look for in a bride, including being faithful (for sexually active) and sexually competent (for virgin).

It is a good point you brought up about their slim chances of marrying within a community if found out that she is not a virgin. And the resons for that expectations again goes back to arranged marriage concept. Where love before marriage was not encouraged, and so was sexual relationship. It is more than just protecting from pregnacy. Well, you should know more on arranged marriages:-). Now, I am just picking on you :-).

And finally, let me ask you this question. What if you came to know this girl who seems to be the person you were looking for all this time, and everything and everyone is agreeing (the caste, the community, even the parents, all planets and stars aligned, even your pet loves her:)), but you came to know later that she is not virgin, would you marry her anyway? It is kind of a personal question, you do not have to answer.

I have a question to guys out there. Are there any out there who in their 20's insisted on virgin bride, but eventually have changed their outlook on virginity in later years before marriage?

By bhopad on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 05:16 pm:

Guys,

This is all getting too confusing. I had thought this issue was much simpler than this.

Forget about the question you asked Reality bites answer me this:

1. Why does a man require a virgin wife? Is the pleasure of breaking your wife's hymen an eternal and blissful act which you perceive to be the most important act of your sexual life?

I think we have blown this topic beyond its own realm. I think we are all forgetting certain definitions here and so I am forced to go back to the drawing board.

According to our (hindu) philosophy the only reason virginity was "emphasized" (note the term) was to ensure sexual compatibilty between newly wed partners. It was found that if the partners had a huge imbalance in their sexual histories before marriage their "expectation levels" from their partners also underwent a radical imbalance leading to strained relationships sexually. Virginity was given a higher status among females because it was more noticeable and more shameful for a family to hide sexual activity before marriage than a man. I think we men created a huge issue about it and have reached a situation where we don't know whether to hide it if our newly wed bride is found not to be a virgin or to revolt assuming that the man is a virgin.

But the basic philosophy still remains the same. You have to find a balance in sexual experience and compatibilty in your partner so that you don't end up expecting something great on bed and get dissapointed everytime. One day it will add up to being enough of this shit and you go out of the door. now this doesn't sound too unfamiliar in US does it guys? then starts the whole series of mistakes one makes following ones sex drives and forgetting the basic reason for sex is that "It still is and will be an expression for someone you love deeply and willingly or unwillingly give him/her pleasure that he/she desires". Don't tell me you can love two people as deeply as you would have one person in your lifetime.

I think it is simple after all.

By Dexter on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 06:27 pm:

Bhopad,

I wrote about this earlier (April 3rd posting; Vol.3). I said that a reason why many men (Indian, American, or otherwise) desire a virgin for a wife is because the husband does not want to have to compete with his wife's past lover(s). He doesn't want to think if he was worse or better than his wife's ex. Although divorce is looked down upon in India, according to the postings that I've read here, I know at least in America that a man will sometimes think that he has to compare himself to the exes of his wife. Even if he divorces his wife, the next guy that marries his ex-wife will start comparing himself to the ex-husband, and so on.

Now of course, this seems petty. But guys, you know how our egos are. When it comes to intimate meetings with our spouses, we want to be THE MAN to our wives. If marriage was like a movie, husbands want to be the wife's LEADING MAN, not the "special guest" making the cameo appearance. Also, since women are more empowered now than they were years ago, some aren't afraid to tell a man that they aren't good in bed. Some women will fake or "pretend" that the consummation was wonderful.

So what do some men do? Some of these guys (to save face) will deliberately choose a virginal woman as a bride because they know these women had no other men before them, therefore no one to compare themselves to and no competition to worry about--you can't fake what you've never had in the first place.

It sounds pitiful, but we all have to at least agree that the bedroom is the Last place where a man wants to be laughed at.

By bhopad on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 06:46 pm:

Dexter,

I think there is nothing wrong for a man to try and be "The man" for his wife. She is his wife for cyring out loud and if you're not thinking to be her man , you will never be able to love her the way she deserves. I know its kind of a catch 22 as the wife would not like too sticky a husband but if and I repeat if she gets the feeling that she is not the central focus of your life, she is going to raise hell about it..I don't care how much she is educated or wealthy..that is the singlemost desire that a wife can have and you know that she deserves it if she has been faithful to you.

Yes I agree with you 100% about the competition with other men in her life that is the reason when i want to get married i am going to ensure she is a virgin even if it takes a medical exam of my prospective wife. Come on, if she is a virgin she has nothing to hide and so would her parents ..I guess. I know I sound rather backdated in todays times but I'd rather have a sound begining to my married life..who knows what is in store for us anyway..why make it harder by bringing in this new problem of competing in the bed..for gods sake thats the last place I want competition..don't you guys agree..?

You know what, I think the same goes for the girl too..wouldn't she love having a virgin husband esp. if she is a virgin too. We off course have to realise that once the boy or the girl losses her virginity there is no point in demanding virgins anymore or having any lopsided expectations. Better talk about it with your wife and have your expectations set right. you can't do anything to get your virginity back anyway.

By Warrior on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 04:21 am:

Dexter,

At least in the Indian context, the desire to have a virgin wife has little to do with the 'competition factor' you wrote about. It stems from more deep-rooted cultural notions of 'purity' and 'defilement'. Among conservative people, which I consider to include a large number of Indians, a woman is considered 'impure' if she has sex before marriage or outside marriage. This often also leads to some sad situations where a man leaves his wife if she becomes a victim of rape.

Society (all over the Old World) has traditionally been male-controlled and male-oriented; so the premium on virginity does not apply to males. Some anthropologists also trace back the importance of female chastity (for want of a better word) to prehistoric hunter/gatherer communities, where in the interest of the unity, discipline and progress of the community, it was important for every woman to 'belong' to one and only one man. Hence also the notion of marriage.

By Editor on Saturday, August 07, 1999 - 06:17 pm:

Friends

Some recent messages are moved to the discussion
Is Active Sex Life Before Marriage Unethical ?
Please click on the link on top.

By Anonymous on Monday, September 06, 1999 - 01:05 pm:

MJ,

Go triumph over something worthwhile. There are many causes--- just to list few.

1. Hungry people in India.
2. Poverty in India
3. Pollution in India
4. Corruption in India
5. Violence, gangs in India
6. Child labor in India.

Many with thinking capacity will agree that -- You have focused your energy, time and brain on the wrong things.

Triumph over one person is an indication of narrow focus as your views are.

By Editor on Saturday, October 30, 1999 - 12:24 am:

You are invited to our newest discussion on Sexual harassment .

By Ghatak on Saturday, October 30, 1999 - 09:37 am:

Editor, there is nothing on the sexual harrasment page.

By Editor on Saturday, October 30, 1999 - 05:44 pm:

Dear Ghatak

If you know how to read between the lines, if you are sensitive to your family and environment, you will find a lot.
Sexual harassment is not only towards females but even towards men. The pervert minded people with sexual harassment attitude end up in trouble and in the US they end up in federal correction facilities for long time.

By Ghatak on Sunday, October 31, 1999 - 03:54 pm:

Wow editor, are you saying I am sexually harrasing someone or is that a general term YOU?

By Princess on Sunday, October 31, 1999 - 08:13 pm:

Ghatak,

Editor isn't getting personal with you. You is a general term as in if You people were to read between the lines, explore all the different issues on that particular string there is a lot to talk about.

By Jat Punjabi on Tuesday, November 02, 1999 - 12:47 am:

Dear Jat Punjabi

Thanks for finding this error.
Appreciate your help.
I am fixing it now.

Best regards
ed.

By Jat Punjabi on Tuesday, November 02, 1999 - 12:52 am:

It should be

sexual harassment.

Thanks

By Adonis on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 09:46 am:

Virginity is a big issue over a small tissue...
And as far as Virginity being a gift that the partners can offer each other is pure B.S.
It is a psychological orientation of the unevolved mind..

By FunLover on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 12:12 am:

Adonis,
That was good dude.
FunLover

By The Orator on Tuesday, January 04, 2000 - 09:09 pm:

More often than not, it is Western society that plays down virginity. In keeping with the notion that the only thing sacred in their eyes is money. Unfortunately, the West possess the ability to spread their values and force them upon other societies.

Western views on virginity is at the root of marital disfunction in the society. The idea that it doesn't matter, overlooks the correlation between acceptance of this notion and the incidents of increased infidelity and divorce.

By Princess on Wednesday, January 05, 2000 - 06:31 am:

Orator,

Please don't generalize something based on non-facts. Marital dysfunction and infidelity and are also very much a part of Indian society. Divorce is prevelant more so now then ever before because people are learing that they actually have choices other then remaining in an unhappy marriage based on society and ones they were forced to enter and remain in. No society is so simple to be only affected by one aspect of human life, there are many facets to problems as multifaceted as human beings are. Please pick a specific topic and elaborate on it rather then generalize.

By Mister erudite on Tuesday, January 18, 2000 - 09:15 pm:

Most men and women (let's not forget that the grooms' mothers , aunts, and all those other wagging tongues are women too!) have double standards about virginity. A man is a stud if he has sex before marriage, a woman who does so is a slut!
As long as the 2 have faith in each other , and decide to be faithful to each other after marriage, why should it make any difference whether the other is a virgin or not?
Perhaps the pre-marriage "experiences" might yield some pretty good techniques that can spice up the post marriage sex!!!ha! Ha!
my advice to boys who've HAD sex before marriage , but are still looking for virgins to marry , is:"khud to second hand ho, aur first hand maal expect karte ho?"

By salem on Thursday, January 27, 2000 - 11:39 am:

I look for hot girl
I am 35 years Arabic man

By Editor Admin on Thursday, January 27, 2000 - 09:21 pm:

Mr Salem

These days we only have cold girls and they have decided not to talk to Arabic men as they dont like to be recruited in your brothels. Dont you have enough with Filipinas in UAE?
By the way, We are also looking for some cab drivers for our transport division. Please apply there. We will pay you with 100 leashes daily.

By Anonymous on Thursday, March 02, 2000 - 03:16 am:

I am a mature American woman married to an Indian man. He was a virgin when we got married; he knew I was not. Virginity was not a problem before we got married. He had his misgivings but before we were able to really get to know each other, in every way, not just sexually, after we got married, he became insecure about my not being a virgin. He began to think he had made a mistake because all his friends had married virgins. In admitting he thought he had made a mistake marrying me, he cut his own throat in as far as the probability of our ever being able to abandon ourselves to each other, sexually, in the future. To this day, he thinks my lack of response to him is the result of my previous experience. I have told him over and over, it is not my experience, prior to our marraige, but his negative view of me within our marraige that has been detrimental to our relationship and sex life.

I am presently counseling a young bride who is a virgin. She is having a terrible time developing a sexual relationship that is satisfying with her husband. It has nothing to do with the fact that she is a virgin and everything to do with how he treats her. A good sex life is determined by how well the man treats the woman during the day, not how well he performs, in bed. You guys are obsessed with performance while a woman is interested in a respectful, loving relationship. If she has that, she will abandon herself to her husband without having to think about it.

I am not proud of the fact that I was not a virgin. I was naive and ill-informed, but that does not make me a bad person. I have a lot of qualities many virgins may not. A virgin can be as self-absorbed an individual as a non-virgin. One needs to consider the full character of a man or woman and not just limit one's self to one criteria in making the all-important decision of whether to marry any particular person, or not. We get pretty much what we give, in life. That's the bottom line, regardless who you give yourself to.

By Celumnaz on Sunday, April 09, 2000 - 08:43 am:

What are the reasons against marrying the "varshakari"?

By Liviti on Friday, May 26, 2000 - 12:12 am:

One should NOT be sexually engaged with people who are NOT consciously pursuing their development

married or not.....

By An Irishman on Monday, September 04, 2000 - 06:21 am:

In Judeo-Christianity, regardless of what modernists say, the loss of virginity only has to do with sexual intercourse.

This is because when a man and wife marry, they become one with each other, by having sexual intercourse. It isn't speaking of oral sex, or all of the other types of sex. This is how it should be considered.

In Old Testament times, it was very uncommon for unmarried women to consent to having oral sex with a man, because it just wasn't considered being consistent with being pure and Godly. Essentially, it was considered slutty.

Also, until just recently, women didn't claim to be a virgin, all the while engaging in oral and anal sex with a man. It was assumed if you had enough self-control to refrain from having genital intercourse with a man, you also wouldn't put a man's penis in your mouth, and then ask if you were considered a virgin. People used to have more class than that.

Also, to you Hindu Indian men: if you would like to find out the true meaning of virginity, as I have told you, the concept is very universal. If at all possible, ask your father or grand-father what the definition of virginity is. I am certain most will agree that it is the penetration of the vagina with the penis.

I don't mean to sound harsh.

By An Irishman on Wednesday, September 06, 2000 - 06:44 am:

None of my above post, however, was intended to imply that the Lord is unwilling to forgive sin, or that we should judge a potential spouse solely on their non-virginal status.

I was just trying to clear up the meaning of the term "virginity," and show how ridiculous it is for us to even discuss anal or oral sex as being a part of it.

By Anonymous on Sunday, September 24, 2000 - 10:34 pm:

Hi,I am Indian Male and am getting married next year.My fiancee and I had sex before marriage,but I observed that she was wide at front.Ofcourse little blood came.Since I had read that when first time,it is very difficult to penetrate,but I could do it easily.I asked her and she said that having it wide doesn't make you a non-virgin.She added that nowadays,it is common for it not to be tight at first go,bacause you don't sit at home.She works.Can you please answer me,Is it that it has always to be tight in first go?

By dana on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 03:55 am:

Anonymous: No a woman does not always have to bleed her first time or be that tight. maybe you had her worked up so much that her body provided her with lubrication that made you slide in nicely.
And nowadays yes, women can break their hymen by riding a bike or using a tampon, so if you trust her don`t worry.

By ProudPunju on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 11:04 pm:

Hey anonymous, you've been had! A woman has to be tight if she's a virgin, ignore tuki, she's full of crap. Riding a bike doesn't affect a vagina, what crap is that?!! Next you know, they'll say that their virgin is loose cause they sat in a pram as babies!
wake up anonymous, your fiancee was bonking someone before u came along, I'm not saying thats bad, its just a fact.

By Jat Punjabi on Wednesday, December 06, 2000 - 11:47 pm:

Hey Anonymous,

I didn't want to discus this with you; but, I realize that ProydPunju's comment are not valid at all. If she bled, that's a solid evidence that she was virgin. Even if she didn't bleed, it wouldn't mean that she wasn't virgin. She doesn't have to be tight. I am not saying she did it; but, I heard from a lady a long time ago that some of the women/girls have surgeries to have their vagina widened so that it doesn't hurt.

ProudPunju, how can you be so sure about someone else's sexual life when you don't even know her? Do you realize that one ignorant comment from you can ruin their relationship?

Take care all

By Anonymous on Thursday, December 14, 2000 - 11:53 pm:

I am male 23 years of age and about to get married in a months time.
I have fingered my fiance' about 5 -6 times and she really enjoyed it .
The problem is that she is a bit on the "fat " side , when we tried to have sex
I was unable to enter her as she has fat thies.The size of my penis is about 7 inches.
we are more or less the same height.
I was wondering if you could suggest a way in which I can enter her.
We are both vergins
I really love her and want to do everything to please her.
Waiting Eagerly for your answer .

By sangam on Tuesday, December 19, 2000 - 01:40 pm:

Anonymous,

I don't think her "fat thighs" are a problem, since
I think it's impossible for the entrance to the
vagina to be blocked by flesh from the thighs,
however obese the person might be. I just think you
have a typical first-timer's problem, i.e. you aren't
doing it right. Keep the lights on (or dimmed), ask
her to spread her legs as wide as possible (this is
easy to do if you are both in a bed, rather than in a
car or something!), and use your (and her) fingers to
locate the entrance to the vagina.

By Anonymous on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 10:03 pm:

I have a question.

What is anyone's view on mixed marriages -- and I'm not talking about just inter-religion only, this includes from a different country, culture and religion.

The reason why I ask is because I am Vietnamese - adopted in Canada and brought up Christian. I met a man from India - born in Bombay and is Hindi. He is here in Canada, too.

My male friend with whom I have somewhat fallen in love with, but I can't seem to make this known to him as I feel his feelings won't be reciprocated. He is very closely knitted to his family and his mother says that he has to be married by the end of this summer (at least by the end of June - 2001). He is 30 years old and works as a manager of Neuropsychiatry, he's also a doctor as well. He still lives at home - in the big city with his father during the week, and on weekends - they both drive home to where the rest of the family is and is there until Sunday evening.

He has not ever dated in his life, but we have gone out for dinners and lunches. To him, this is not dating as he does not know the meaning of what a date is. We have even rented a movie and watched it at my place. There was one particular movie that I hadn't seen before and therefore did not know the contents of this movie, but he decided to rent it anyway. During the movie, he would be stroking my hair, but when a sex scene came on, he automatically took his hands off me and just sat there with his hands in his lap until the scene was over. After that was over, he again, started stroking my hair. Another thing that happens to him, is when he plays with my hair, his whole body just shakes! - as though he is turned on by this act. Even before we ever rented this movie, he always played with my hair, I don't know why. This, in Western culture, is a sign of affection, but to him, he just loves touching my hair and everytime he sees me, he can't keep his hands off my hair and everytime he plays with my hair, he just shakes.

Can anybody tell me, someone from the Indian culture, want to tell me why he does this? I know he is a virgin and tell me, do most virgin males know what to do when it comes to their wedding night?

I want to be able to tell him how I feel about him, but I guess its just the feeling of being rejected by him. But I feel he is also in conflict with himself as well, because he doesn't want get married at this point and he won't tell his parents about it. He doesn't feel he is well established yet, to start a family, but he is making a very good salary. I think what also scares him is knowing the fact that he'll be marrying a stranger & would certainly be unhappy if he has to marry a girl his parents want him to marry and he doesn't love her or vice versa. This I don't want for him. I've known him for 5 months now and I guess in some strange way that it was fate that brough us together. I really want to be a part of his life and I think we would be good for each other. Already, I feel for him and I just want to be with him, but I don't know what to do.

Any suggestions would be of great help. Anyone?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:30 am:

I think its a personal choice. I'll be the first to admnit that I am hypocritical like most men. I am not a virgin (lost it at 22) but I am marrying a girl who is. I don't know if I wouldn't marry a girl who was ecperienced. I am not in that situation so I can't answer. She has never openly asked if I am or not. If she asks I will, of course, tell her the truth. I really wish I had waited. Its the biggest mistake I made. Although it was only with 1 girl it still feels so wrong. She told me, in passing conversation, that she doesn't expect her husband to be inexperienced. I don't know what I'm even talking about. I just wish it was different.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 03:50 pm:

I have a question it's short but I want your opinion. Is it true that athletes don't have sex for a certain period before their performance? If so, do you have any idea how much time there is in that period? Thanks, anonymous

By worried on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 11:12 am:

hi all,
Just wanted to know if any of you have information on a varshakari. Why has she been categorised this way. what does it mean and is their a cure for it (IMPORTANT). pls send me a mail if you know, it may help my life!!

By Saffire on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 11:34 pm:

hi!
i want to know why a Varshakari is categorized as not to be married. if anyone has any info plz id like to know! ive consulted a doc but he says it perfectly normal..!!??


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