LONE

Lonely at night I lay awake wishing you were here in my bed
Thoughts of you still prevail deep down inside my head
Spring came and went on by a tear welled up in my eye
Sometimes I wish I was dead then face the pain up ahead
Loneliness makes me desperate I want you I must reiterate
Happiness I haven't known since you left me without a hint
The tide rises slowly like the hurt and pain I feel indeed
Hours minutes seconds I wish would take a different turn for me
Randomly a wail let out to vent the hurt to dull the ache
Your pictures say a thousand words ones I wish you had said
The sun burns up the morning fog I feel a new day coming by
The mist is gone from the flowers perhaps from this mind of mine

--------------------------------------------------
Written on a sad day.....

By PS on Saturday, May 22, 1999 - 07:49 am:

Princess

Very beautiful and touching indeed. Keep up the good work. I'll see you all more after finals.

PS

By XYZ on Sunday, June 13, 1999 - 07:51 am:

How do you let go of someone you really loved?


Things did not workout for many reasons. Rationally and logically break up was for the best but emotionally unable to accept.

By Sincerely... on Sunday, June 13, 1999 - 08:37 am:

Hi XYZ,
That is a tough one. I don't think you ever let go of someone you truely love completely. You always have that space in your heart for them I think.

I guess to truely try to forget to the point where you can function, you would have to meet others and occupy your time with other activities.

It feels like you may never be able to love again or find someone that can compare to your lost love. But it will happen, given time. But you will probably always have feelings for this person. My heart goes out to you... take care of yourself, life does go on.

Good Luck,
Sincerely...

By Rayna on Sunday, June 13, 1999 - 04:55 pm:

I agree with Sincerely....You can never completely let go of the person you truly love...you would always have feelings deep down for him/her.

By Dee on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 02:01 am:

Hi, this is Dee, and deeply and truly in love with love, and one certain person, who treated me like dirt - hate him so him, but can't help but care, if you care about a person does that mean he love you or not? This person said he cares about me that's all. I feel very hurt and try as i might to forget, but cannot. He does not deserve someone like me I say! So I carry on with life and try to love life to bits - as they say life is for the living and to enjoy to the max!!

Any contributions to this bit of complete and utter garbage!! I know I am pathetic, I guess really I probably love anyone - but can't even find anyone to love! and I am not ugly. Please help and comment.

Ciao, Dee

By Dexter on Thursday, June 17, 1999 - 07:38 am:

Dee,

No, you're not pathetic and you're not ugly. There's somebody for everyone. And I should know. In high school and my freshman year in college, I had the sex appeal of Steve Urkel.

Back then, I couldn't get a date to save my life. But nobody's perfect. I'm not exactly Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington, but I know I'm definitely not Jabba the Hutt either. I'm not perfect, but I'm not "tore up from the floor up" either.

You're right to keep that attitude about "someone who treats you wrong doesn't deserve you." And they don't deserve you if mistreat you, period. In fact, everyone should have that attitude because nobody is a perfect 10.

In the high school/teen years, I thought I was the most pathetic thing ever. Now I realize that most of those girls that turned me down just had very terrible tastes in finding dates. So many people who mistreat their boyfriends/girlfriends don't know how good they got it with their significant other until he's/she's gone out of their lives.

My $0.02

By Dee on Friday, June 18, 1999 - 10:16 pm:

Dear Dexter,
That was so sweet! You sound like a person who is on the same wavelength as me! and probably fifty other million! Anyway, good riddance to bad rubbish, that person will probably treat the next person the same as he did me!, somehow I am glad I'm out of it, so why do I feel so bad about it?
from now on, i'm going to move on and be happy!


Ps : are your from America? (where from?)

By Dexter on Saturday, June 19, 1999 - 07:56 am:

Well Dee,
I'm from America. I'm from Macon, a small city in Georgia. It's about 80 miles south of Atlanta.

By cat on Tuesday, June 29, 1999 - 06:34 pm:

Hai ,
I am an Indian. My age is 27. I felt in love with a indian girl 1 month ago. We both r now is USA. I like her character very much. She takes care on me very much. She came to airport when i leave from that place. She is talkative, accomdative. But when i left her place to another place she is keeping distance from me because i expressed my love to her while moving that place.
I dont what is the reason for this distance. Can u help and give the solution so that i can continue love with her.

By Princess on Wednesday, June 30, 1999 - 06:26 am:

Cat,

You may have confessed something to her she is unwilling to reciprocate. Perhaps she was simply trying to be your friend and you confessing love has made her run away. Why don't you just ask her?

By cat on Wednesday, June 30, 1999 - 07:28 pm:

Hai Princess,
I asked her many times but she is not replying me. She is keeping mum in the phone. Dont ask many questions to me.

By Nick on Friday, July 02, 1999 - 07:48 am:

I posted this question in a different portion of this site so forgive my question if it is redundant. I have seen several responses on the multi-faceted topic of American women dating Indian men. What is the liklihood of Indian women dating - or even marrying - American men? What does an Indian woman (whether American or Indian born) seek in a relationship with another? Are there any who care to share such an experience?

By Princess on Friday, July 02, 1999 - 07:57 am:

Cat,

If you are looking for answers here you will encounter questions. If you aren't prepared to answer them how can anyone give you any opinion about your question?

By cat on Friday, July 02, 1999 - 09:29 pm:

Hai Princes,
I spoked to her yesterday she told that my father is not feeling well and i should take care of him. U wil be getting a better girl than me . She told v will be as a friends. What is ur reply for this matter. Can i proceed or not ?

By Princess on Tuesday, July 06, 1999 - 08:00 pm:

Cat,

If you are romantically interested in this girl then tell her and ask her out. If she declines move on. She's not interested. There are many more women in this world.

By Maggie on Friday, July 09, 1999 - 05:45 am:

Hi Nick,

I have a couple of Indian girl friends who were unhappily married to Indian men. They are divorced and are dating American men. For starters, their marriages were "arranged" meaning that they hardly knew the men they married. They are hoping that dating American men will let them see if someone with a totally different upbringing and outlook on life will make any difference. They have ruled out dating Indian men because *most* Indian men tend to have a lot of hangups about women, period. For *most* Indian men living in America, it is unthinkable that Indian women want to date before marriage, have sex before marriage, or want to get out of a bad marriage.

As far as the likelihood of Indian women dating American men, my observation is that Indian girls born in America or raised in America from a very young age do not care to date or marry Indian men, for the same reasons mentioned above. They see the double standards Indian men hold on to, even those men that are born and raised here. In a vast majority of cases, these men inherit hangups from their Indian parents you see.

What do Indian women look for in American men ? As an Indian woman unhappily married to an Indian man for many years, here's my perspective. If I were married to an American, I think he would not(1) flip if I shook hands with another man (2) expect me to cook every single day and clean the house when he is a couch potato (3) go ballistic if I make more money than him and climb up the corporate ladder faster than him (4) accuse me that I want to look good to other men just because I care about staying in good shape (5) feel that I don't care about him if I want to have a girls' night out once in a blue moon (6) accuse me of being a spend thrift if I give money to my parents to take care of old age illnesses, and so on and so on. These seem like basic little things, don't they ? I don't know that an American man would be an ideal mate but I do know that it is foolish to even expect these basic things from *most* Indian men.

I believe that women everywhere look for a man to have an emotional connection with, the right chemistry, lasting love, tolerance, patience, his ability to love and be loved, and his ability to live and let live. When we cannot find these attributes in men from our own nationality and culture, we look for it elsewhere, hoping to find them. I'd like to think that there has to be something different about men from a different culture. Knowing how women are treated by men in Chinese, Japanese, middle eastern and African cultures, I would feel much more comfortable dating American men than any of these. *most* Indian women would agree with me.

By Lonley punjabi on Friday, July 09, 1999 - 07:17 am:

I have not many words to say but I love punjabi girls and the lips,hands,eyes and other stuff.

By Rayna on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 07:02 am:

Maggie....

I think you are generalising a lot. If arranged marriages are so bad....tell me why the divorce rate in the US has risen to 50%.

there re two sides to every problem...arranged marriages have their advantages if done in the right way.

By Abhijeet on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 07:23 am:

HELP!!!!
Concerned about a very basic, though mind pearcing question....why do people fall in love???
Please look at it through a religious point of view. We all are a part of Brahman, right? And it is not the body that matters, it is the soul, right? And if discrimination is of levels and not of kind, than what differentiates a woman from being ur wife or your sister? I mean, we all have a soul! The soul is part of the One...the truth..divinity. Then, why is one woman chosen to be your wife, and the other your sister? What makes the difference? Is it lust? Then where is love? Is it that their minds match? But remember minds are simply illusions!! That if we are ALL part of the ONE than we are all connected!!! So why is one woman a lover and another a sister or a mother??? Please let me know...why do we fall in "love" (if it is love!!) with some people and not with others. Thanks.

Abhijeet

By Abhijeet on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 07:38 am:

oh please one other thing....I don't belive in destiny AT ALL. It is all Karma and fruition. Keeping that in mind, why do we fall in "love"?
I'm starting to think, it's not really love. It's expectations!!!!

ABhijeet

By Princess on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 09:45 pm:

Abhijeet,

It's very simple.
Love is a very human and basic expression. Something felt from the heart, mind and soul. A heart, mind and soul created by god.

Relationships such as sisters, mothers and wives are stemmed biologically you can't compare them. Your sister is your sister because she was born off your mothers womb. Your mother is your mother because she bore you. You wife is your wife because you married her. Any other relationship is defined by geneology and biology.

The rules that govern it are man-made so whatever rules men made is what went. God didn't say "Don't fall in love with someone because they are different".

By Abhijeet on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 11:14 pm:

Princess ji,
The point I do not understand is, if we are all part of God, then are we not a family? I mean aren't we all just one whole rather than you and me and someone else? And if this is so, why is it that we feel attracted towards one while not towards another?

In my perception, isn't it all just materialistic attraction? And if it is, it's all an illusion. I could be taking this to extremes *laffs*. In ancient times, I think there was a need to continue civilizations and so the NEED for marraiges was born. Later it turned to other things like lust and other attraction (still based on materialistic things). So I see no place for love! I mean it's all just expectations and selfishness. We seek a companion for our own good. Where is true devotion to someone? The devotion that a devotee has towards God! And if there is such a devotion, why does the feeling of sex arise? It simply does not make sense to me. *laffs*

Maybe that helps answer why many Indian philosophers sought a bachelor life.

What do you think on that?

Abhijeet

By Rayna on Saturday, July 10, 1999 - 11:54 pm:

Abhijeet,

As Princess said relationships like sister, mother, father, brother etc...are biological...based on geneology.

But do not forget...in the earlier days...people did marry their cousins and such. More so than marrying sisters or brothers..because a different sort of feeling arose when you first met your sister. I hope you understand what i am trying to say.

But marrying within the family is unhealthy. More so unhealthy than immoral....later to discourage such marriages..it was made immoral. Of course there must be religious stories as to why and how it became immoral. But it is genetically unhealthy.

I do not totally agree with this sentence of yours --
"We seek a companion for our own good. Where is true devotion to someone? The devotion that a devotee has towards God! "

Of course we do seek a companion..but not ONLY for OUR OWN GOOD...sometimes the need within a person arises to care FOR somebody in a s steady way...What about having children??..It is not only for continuing the heritage..if that was the only reason then why have more than 1 or 2 children??? This shows that sometimes it is the need to care for or love somebody who will also do the same in return.

sex---I am not an expert in this..but I know this that no body wants to do something that is not interesting unless they have to. I mean..sex was made pleasurable so that people/animals did it to procreate. If it was not nice...then many (and I mean many many) species will not bother to have it.

Also sex causes some chemicals to be released in the brain which create the feeling of bonding and so on. This makes some species stay with its partner for life. It has a lot of biological effects too, other than simply pleasure.

Hope I have cleared some of your doubts if not all
***smile**

By Abhijeet on Sunday, July 11, 1999 - 04:44 am:

Guys, forgive me. I think I can't make myself clear on this matter. Hmmm I guess what I cannot see in this society is...a kind of..akarmic love. That is you love the person but you do not want love back. Where is that found? Even mothers give love to their children as they are THEIR children and the WANT them to succeed.

Where is free will? *laffs* Seems like everything is connected. I take back my argument. I cannot gather words to put down my feelings and thoughts.

But thanks anyways
Abhijeet

By Rayna on Sunday, July 11, 1999 - 05:24 am:

Abhijeet,

there are many instances where one person loves another with no love in return. For some in certain circumstances, it hurts...for some in other situations, it is fine.

Eg- I have read many times on this site "I love him/her so much though I know he cheats/abuses me etc. "

Also mothers may love "their" children..but it is an unconditional love..even if you insult them, hurt them etc.....they would always love you. Of course they would always pray that you respect them...but the love is unconditional.

It is the same with devotion to God. People who are very devoted also "expect" to be taken care of by God...in whichever form that they can realise it. This taking care may not be literally taking care...but there has to be some form of showing that God is responding to their prayers..maybe not everyday..but sometime some day.

By Princess on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 06:51 am:

Ok Abhijeet I try again :-),

The point I do not understand is, if we are all part of God, then are we not a family? I mean aren't we all just one whole rather than you and me and someone else?

We are on a more larger scale and philosophical level one large family. We are humans versus Martians?

And if this is so, why is it that we feel attracted towards one while not towards another?

Because as humans with a mind we have a certain image of what is attractive to us (different for everyone) so hence we are attracted to one person and not to another.

In my perception, isn't it all just materialistic attraction? And if it is, it's all an illusion.

Ofcourse it is materialistic. We aren't hermits or the men of mythology who viewed beauty differently then we did. We are human and quite shallow. Differen't people at different levels ofcourse.

In ancient times, I think there was a need to continue civilizations and so the NEED for marraiges was born. Later it turned to other things like lust and other attraction (still based on materialistic things).

God put man on earth to better and procreate. Hence the need of create new lives and hence the need for marriages a bond built and revered by humans. Remember cavemen didn't have marriage ceremonies. They are bound by law in recent civilization. The premisis behind marriage is still sacred and meant to bring two people together to spend the rest of their lives together. It is only in recent times that it has become materialistic and looked upon with lust.

So I see no place for love! I mean it's all just expectations and selfishness. We seek a companion for our own good.

We seek companionship for we are humans and cannot live without other humans and one needs love more then one needs to give it. That's just how we are build biologically. Love is a very relative word different for different peole. Don't ask me to define it. Expectations and selfishness is part of love and natural emotions that revolve around the emotion of love. That doesn't mean there is no need or place for love. People couldn't survive without it. It's almost a biological need. And there are different kinds of loves which may or may not revolve around other emotions...love between parents and chidren, husband and wife etc.

Where is true devotion to someone? The devotion that a devotee has towards God! And if there is such a devotion, why does the feeling of sex arise? It simply does not make sense to me. *laffs*

Are you trying to imply that sex is something dirty or bad that you shouldn't think of god or sex in the same sentence? If you are that's nieve. Even men like Ram and Krishna had wives who they procreated with and guess how they achieved it? "Kama" is one of the biggest aspects of a relationship not only written about in holy scriptures and books but also part of wedding vows.

Maybe that helps answer why many Indian philosophers sought a bachelor life.

Honestly hahaha they probably were so into what they did that they didn't have time to be part of the normal boring lives or were so boring themselves no one wanted to tag themselves to them. Don't assume all Philosophers were single however. Some people are married to their professions and philosphers are among many who are living that life. What is the point of philosophizing if you don't live it?

By Practical on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 11:06 pm:

Abhijeet,

God, Karma, etc., are too complicated for my simple mind but here are my thoughts. I do know that all creatures live an die by a few basic needs. Food, Water, Shelter, etc. Somewhere in the evolution cycle, love got added to the list of basic things humans need. In the process of satisfying these needs, we have simply evolved into humans with the kind of thinking that does not rise above what we can see, hear, touch, smell and feel.

If you believe in Karma, then my opinion is that Karma is what makes you do the things you do, including falling in and out of love, being prejudiced about who you love, and why you "need" love. Karma also brought you to this world to be in a specific place at a specific time, meaning that you were meant to be someone's son, father, brother, whatever. Between God and Karma, if a human is meant to rise above all this and find karmic love, I believe it will happen. However, having already been someone's daughter, sister, mother, etc., I feel that I have to fulfill my responsibilities in these roles. As an example, as a mother of a twelve year old, can I walk away from my responsibilities to practice Karmic love ? I don't think so. I believe God gave him to "me" for a reason. That is to love him, cherish him, and take care of him. Can I be a mother to the rest of the world ? In my heart, yes. In practice, I don't know. It would be like biting off a lot more than I can chew. God created me to be a single mother that has to work hard to put food on the table for the kid he also gave her. I think it is his way of saying that he has already given me the best I deserved for my Karma and I better be thankful and cherish what I got. About 3 billion other people in the world are just like me. Living the life God gave us. You see, this is all so practical and tangible. Karmic love is not.

By Maggie on Monday, July 12, 1999 - 11:16 pm:

Rayna,

I am not trying to blame everything on arranged marriages. To me, it is like an unknown evil vs. a known evil. I just happen to believe that we are better equipped to deal with known evils than unknown ones.

As to why more than 50% of the marriages in USA fail, I believe that it is because the foundation isn't strong enough to begin with. When people date, they are simply putting their best foot forward to try and "catch" the other person. If they are not honest about themselves, and not honest about what they want in a marriage, it is bound to fail. I believe that if you do it right, dating at least allows you to find out before you commit. With arranged marriages you don't even have a chance.

By bhopad on Tuesday, July 13, 1999 - 01:32 am:

Maggie,

Well , I'm surprised to see that arranged marriages are that extreme today. I always thought that arranged marriages has the final consent of both parties after the basic families like each other and stand by harmonious attitudes to life. The whole exercise was carried out so that the children growing in these families did not go thru a trauma of radically different ideas and attitudes which are 90 degree apart in infant stages. But the problem is that a few societies accepted totally blind arranged marriages (very few though). these cases are talked about more as they catch the eye and ear. Even in olden times the most conservative of families allowed letter communication between prospective brides and grooms for development of a congeneal relationship.

Now - a -days off course the issues of compatibility are so complex that you have to spend a lot of time actually face to face to judge each other and test each other. Only don't get too much intimate and make the girl pregnant before marriage.

By Rayna on Tuesday, July 13, 1999 - 08:52 am:

HI!

I did try to post earlier but something was wrong with the computer.

anyway..Maggie....


Arranged marriages are not all that bad if done in the right way. I also think there is a chance in arranged marriages. It depends on with which attitude does one go into it. Many love marriages crumble..because a lot of times it was superficial love that was made into "marriage".
In arranged marriages..you can learn to love and therefore be less expectant. Hence more room for forgive and learning.
I know many families who let the 2 people spend some time together and then finally decide whether the marriage will take place. I will never side with arranged marriages or love marriages completely, since I see good things in both ways as long as it is done in the right way.

It is people who cannot stand up for themselves and what they believe in, who blame arranged marriages and make it sound like a very evil thing.

How about making those first hard moves yourself? Rather than saying my father made me, brother made me etc.

By Maggie on Tuesday, July 13, 1999 - 09:58 pm:

Rayna,

You completely missed my point.

Bhopad,

Advocates of arranged marriages believe that as long as two families of similar cultural, financial, and educational backgrounds that also hold similar moral values and principles come together, everything would work. I find that these superficial things can hardly be a basis for a life long relationship between a man and woman. Once people get past the superficial things, they will discover that these superficial things are perhaps the ONLY commonality they have. If you want to "exist", they will probably suffice for you but if you want to "live", don't you think there is a lot more to life than these ? I think that the ones that glorify arranged marriages do so because they want to feel good that they are compromising, sacrificing, etc., when in reality they are miserable and too vain to admit that their marriage is failing.

By Rayna on Tuesday, July 13, 1999 - 11:11 pm:

Maggie....I have not missed the point. You chose to ignore it. Thats fine.

By Abhijeet on Friday, July 23, 1999 - 10:14 pm:

Seekwar, what's wrong with Ji?

Anyways, thanks a lot for your opinion guys.
You've provken many thoughts in my mind. Maybe I'll do more research in this stuff SOMEDAY.

Abhijeet

By Anonymous on Sunday, July 25, 1999 - 04:39 pm:

Maggie,

I agree with you about arrange marriages. Due to lack of exposure... Indian men/women only know of arrange marriages and frankly not open minded enough to expand their beliefs. Additinally, they have not experienced happiness and lived their life...because they are too busy worshipping material things. In short, most of them live very superficial and hypocratic way of life... and too naiive to know otherwise.

By Megan on Monday, July 26, 1999 - 01:04 am:

I think that most white, mainstream Americans believe that arranged marriages have a negative connotation, probably due to the assumption that arranged marriages deny the individuals concerned freedom of choice. I guess Rayna is trying to point out that arranged marriages don't really do this; ultimately the guy and girl decide themselves and usually the parents are considerate and careful as they search for a spouse. However, there is always the potential for the system to be abused or to fail.

Personally, I have been impressed with the compatibility of the Indians I know who have been arranged. Perhaps amazed is a better word. I've been amazed at how perfect they are for each other. However, I've also wondered about how emotionally intimate these marriages are. Do these partners share their deepest fears and darkest faults? Do they seek to understand each others' feelings and emotions?

Emotional intimacy is missing from a lot of marriages, both arranged and love marriages. However, it seems that love marriages allow for this more. (This is a generalization open for discussion, of course).

Being one of those mainstream Americans, I will inevitably have a love marriage. People like me have an even greater responsibility to personally learn about a potential spouse and to test his/her compatibility before marriage. I have to know what my needs (emotional, spiritual, physical, financial) are and I have to learn to communicate those to my future husband. I have to weigh his ability to meet those needs. I have to decide if I can live with his weaknesses and his faults and support, challenge, and encourage him. And, of course, he has to do the same for me.

If couples commit to doing this before they marry, I think America's lousy, embarrassing divorce rate would decrease. We who have love marriages must decide that it will work, no matter what. Keeping marriage vows must be a priority for both partners; it must be a value they hold to in spite of everything. The responsibility is on them. They may be some accountability from extended family, but nothing like in an arranged marriage.

Anyway, just a few of my thoughts...

By Rayna on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 02:47 pm:

Thank you Megan.
Arranged marriages IF DONE IN THE RIGHT WAY are very good. No one goes into the relationship with sky high expectations. Hence there is room for failures and learning, love and patience.

Its like giving the example of the knife. Is everyone going to argue with me that the knife was a very bad invention because it is dangerous? The crime rate has increased because knives were invented???? Of course not!!! What a lame excuse!!! One has to observe the difference in the role a knife plays in the hands of a surgeon and in those of a murderer. So no one is saying knives should be banned!

Similarly, arranged marriages can be done for 2 people's good or can be done to harm one of them. It is upto the people doing it. That does not mean every arranged marriage is bad and fails and has no love.

Many of my relative (100s of them) have had arranged marriages (I mean the older generation) and they are happy. I can say this because though I may not be in their bedrooms at night..I see them go through the difficult times of life and still see the smiles on their faces.

I am not going against love marraiges. I will never say that one is better than the other. But because divorce is allowed in the western world...people take the easy way out even if their marraige could have been saved. Sometimes when something is looked down upon, people think 100s of times before doing it. This gives them more time trying to help their marriage. Now there is a negative side to this and that being people who do not have the courage to get a divorce even when circumstances are very bad and intolerable.

New ideas should be explored and, if found good, practised...but that does not mean that the old ideas should be thrown out without a proper consideration.

Nowadays many people have found arranged marriages to be the excuse for not having a good marital life. These people are relieved to have someone/something to put the blame on. Oh God!!!! Why didn't these people open their mouth in front of their parents and said that they didn't want to go through the system????? What happened to their bravery then? No, that they will not do...they will be mute. And then they think that all they have to do after marriage is sit still and survey whether their arranged marriage was good or bad, and at the least tribulations, shout that arranged marriages is bad.....

I am not saying that all arranged marriages are good though....but I think anything in life should be done with the right spirit and enthusiasm..only then can they be a success....if there is a failure...let it not be said that "you could have helped it".

By Asha on Monday, August 30, 1999 - 02:44 pm:

Hi this is Asha. I got to know someone through the net a year ago. He is such a sweet and caring person. We are so much in love and then one day when i talked about our relationship he said that he loves me but does not want to give our relationship a name. It hurt soo much and i'm still unable to get over it. I'm am really serious about our relationship. what do you think i should do?. We have spoken with each other a few times on the phone.

By FunLover on Monday, August 30, 1999 - 05:39 pm:

Asha,

I know that this is something best handled by you. But I hope that letting you know what my feelings are may help you make a descision.

I feel that relatioships based on chatting on the net, according to my opinion, cannot be depended upon. So are ones based on telephone conversations. I feel that anyone can wax eloquent on the internet and we should not base our judgements of a person's character based on interactions on the net. According to me, a relationship can only be developed through physical interactions with a person. So do not feel low and get on with your life. I know it is easier said than done. And thanks for sharing with us.

By Princess on Monday, August 30, 1999 - 09:12 pm:

Asha,

A relationship over the net is one that is just that virtual. One can be anything and anyone they want to be on the net. After having a net relationship on the net you have only spoken to this person a few times on the phone and haven't even met this person yet don't you think you should question this?

He could be married, lying or simply anyone other then who he says. What would you know what the truth is if you aren't having a "real life" relationship with him? He could be chatting with you while passing time on the net in other words you may not be the reason for him being on the net. Do you get my drift? Don't put so much time, energy and effort into something that would be a bunch of nothing in the end.

I know it hurts now but you need to be a little more realistic about life.

There is nothing wrong with talking to and meeting someone on the net but that's exactly what one has to do...meet. At some point, and sooner then later people have to progress their relationship from a net relationship to a real life relationship or it remains virtual and unreal. Real life is lot more boring and harsh then a fantastical one on the net and often many people find out that their relatioships dwindle when they do make it real.

How old are you? Where are you and where is he?

By FunLover on Monday, August 30, 1999 - 11:32 pm:

Well said Princess. I am pretty new to this cyber chat stuff. Till now my assumption was that, these cyber romances are stuff for bad movies. But, I am surprised that people are taking these cyber romances seriously and consequently getting hurt.

Using the internet to meet a person sounds fine as starter for a romance. But that is what it should be, a starter. Actually meeting a person and knowing the person is imperative for a healthy relationship.

By FunLover on Tuesday, August 31, 1999 - 12:08 am:

Princess,
As I was going through the stream of messages posted on this link, I just happened to notice your general comments on "*most* Indian" men on your July 8th post. In fact you even included the Indians brought up here. Not very amusing! And, me thinks, most unfair.

Have you ever dated an Indian Indian man? If not, I'll dignify those assumptions with a response. If you did, I'll still disagree with you, but respect your opinions as they were based on personal experience.

Actually, it kind off explains why it was easier for me to date Non-Indian Americans than to even get into a civil conversation with an ABI (American Born Indians) girls when I went to school (and believe me I tried!). I refuse to believe that the Non-Indian American women found me more attractive (exotic?!) than the ABIs did. Atleast not for such a long period.

I am surprised all the males out on this site who espouse Indianness and rave and rant like rabid MCPs did not say anything about your generalizations. I am sorry that the women did not disabuse you of your notions. Unless of course they did not deem it worthy of a response! Or, all the women on this site are of the assumption that *most*Indian men are jerks. And so they implicitly agree with you. That I think is dangerous.

Hmmm... Interesting. I think I can guess what is happening.

By FunLover on Tuesday, August 31, 1999 - 12:17 am:

Hi Princess,
SORRY!!! That post was by Maggie. But I still am surprised that no one refuted her statements. The fact that there was no opposition to her statement by anyone is disconcerting. General character assasination done by men or women, is unacceptable.

My apologies once again.

By Princess on Tuesday, August 31, 1999 - 01:01 am:

Phew Funlover,
No problem. Thought I was losing it for a minute.

By Joseph on Tuesday, August 31, 1999 - 03:45 am:

Hi FunLover,

I think what Maggie talks about is based on her own experience as well as couple of her friends experiences. I think her generalization of "most" is based on proporational comparision with "most" of Americans (non-Indians) in regards to man-to-woman interactions, double standerds, perception and treatment of Indian women. She thinks that the exception to the rules (like you) are "few".
I think she has a point to certain extent. Some of this is evident on these boards on issues like virginity, interpretation of beauty (in the name of humor ofcourse), dating habbits in general(inter-racial or intra-racial) and appalling theory of woman's place in a marriage (A link to the narration burried somewhere on one of the discussion threads).

I am sure these issues are evident in Americans, but among "few" compared to "most" Indians. And there may be other negative issues among "most" Americans that is observed in "few" Indians.

By Maggie on Tuesday, October 19, 1999 - 11:19 pm:

Funlover,

It's been a while but let me answer the "character assassination" bit in your message. You chose to ignore the point I was trying to make in my previous message so let me try again.

There are cultures in the world that have "rules" for women: how they should dress, how much education they are entitled to, if any, how many paces they should walk behind a man, so on and so forth. You can't deny the fact that Indian culture has had a few rules about women in a similar way. When something becomes part of a culture and is practiced for hundreds of years, it will take hundreds more years to get rid of it. You may call it "character assassination" but as far as I am concerned, if millions of Indian men are still holding on to those old rules, it is simply "that part of your culture that is not dead yet".

Are you aware that there are real cultures out there that stone a woman to death if she exposes her face and hair ? isn't it true that millions of women are forced to go through genital mutilation in some parts of the world ? You may not see yourself as an "indian" Indian but can you deny the fact that dowry and bride burning still happen in India ? The worst thing that happened in Amrican history is that women couldn't vote a long long time ago. Don't you see that this society has come a loooong way from there while millions of men in other cultures are still doing what they were doing ages ago ? If you do, it shouldn't surprise you that "most" Indian women probably see things my way. I like Joseph's clarification of what I mean by "most". Thank you, Joseph.

By Bhima Patel on Friday, October 22, 1999 - 10:42 am:

I have heard on this message board from many so called Hindustani's women about them not being happy to marry Hindusthani guys. Well good ridance to them we don't need bad sh.it amoung us.

I have always felt that it is the duty of every Hindu to make sure he or she continues our Dharma, culture, language and lineage to future generations.

But I see there are to many B****** raised in the west that don't give a rats ass about what their parents were and their ancient lineage.

Well we should not accept these people as part of our community. These people should be told in no uncertain terms. So you want to not be a Hindu anymore but want to stay part the community? NO GET THE HELL OUT, WE DON"T NEED YOU.

Sever completely their ties to the community. In my opinion when the Hindu community reacts on the same basis to the b****** we will achieve results and be able to save HIndus and Hinduism outside Hindusthan.

There are too many hypocrites amoung us have nothing better to do then blast everything that is Hindu.

OUTCASTING is the tool of the day!

By Anonymous on Friday, October 22, 1999 - 06:46 pm:

Bhima we are having an intelligent adult conversation here without maligning eachother and stooping to your level of intelligence. Go someplace else where someone cares about your message of hate, hypocracy and hysteria!

I suggest to everyone to ignore this guy instead of fanning this ridiculous attempt at causing arguments on the board and destroying the peace as he continues to do so around the board and doesn't manage to. He posts the same garbage about numbers game everywhere, on all strings, all over the board and doesn't have much knowledge or intelligence to post responses to discussions or participage civily in any discussions. If you have half a brain read the actual posts and respond to individual problems with individual solutions. A blanket solution like your retarded "numbers game" to every single problem is a Hitler philosophy and we all know what happened to him.

Lets outcast the unintelligent and unwanted like this type who don't really care much for the people or their problems on their boards but are basically bullshitting all day with nothing better to do and killing time.

By Maggie on Saturday, October 23, 1999 - 01:10 am:

Anonymous,

I agree with you. This Bhima character needs to be ousted from the message boards. His language turns my stomach and his opinions make me really sick.

BTW, I would appreciate if anyone can point me to anything about what Hindu Dharma says about divorces and "bas...s" that Bhima refers to in his post. I had been mislead about Hinduism based on what I had heard about widows being treated like outcasts and that widow re-marriages were really non-existant. Thanks to some of my "real" Hindu friends, I have learnt that this really has nothing to with Hindu Dharma or culture but just an ignorant practice that just became part of life in Indian society. I am sure it is sheer ignorance, not Hindu Dharma, that speaks against divorce. I am also pretty sure that Hindu Dharma doesn't call children of divorce "bas...s" and teach people to react to them in an inhumane way. Thanks.

By Princess on Saturday, October 23, 1999 - 04:04 am:

I assure you Maggie that the perpetuation of this philosophy that Mr Bhima has been following is something that is entirely in his mind and maybe sadly in the world he lives in but not a reality of the Hindu dharma. Customs and Cultures are practices created by men. Religion is given by god and god doesn't treat human beings the way Mr Bhima proposes they do. Don't worry about him. He is pushing himself into the pit Seek war pushed himself into. As he was kicked out of the board so will this one. It's only a matter of time.

The best thing is to ask questions about something and listen and absorb what the world says. Ofcourse there are always going to be angry disgruntled people like these guys in any society not just Indian society. But rest assured the rest of the Indian society doesn't behave in this fashion and doesn't involve itself in such propoganda.

By Maggie on Thursday, October 28, 1999 - 10:36 pm:

Princess,

Thank you for responding, and also for trying to set some of these ridiculously prejudiced people straight.

By Princess on Friday, October 29, 1999 - 06:44 pm:

"You also don't like that I have transformed the Hindustan.net boards into a real reflective message board."

Get real. You've turned the boards or attempted to turn them into some kind of a morality board with morality policing done by you and Prickwar. Please you are the laughing stock of everyone on the board you are undergoing hysteria if you think you are making people reflect on anything intellictual.

Don't worry about my parents. My parents love me and would accept anyone I marry wholeheartedly. Go worry about yours since you are so insecure and keep talking about getting kicked out of the house. They probably would I'm sure considering the kind of community you come from. That is why you are angry at the people who have choices other then yours. Plain ole' jealousy.

By the way I don't want anything. As long as you continue shitting on the boards I will continue throwing it in your face. I could care less if you stay or leave. If you are outsted like Prickwar it would be by your own doing and not my own.

Prickwar give me a break. You are just sitting on here waiting to respond to my messages. If people wanted to know who lives on here and who is obessed with whom they can just look at the messages. The minute I post something you are all over it in like 2 seconds. So action speaks louder then words honey. You are threatened by me admit it. Hahaha.

BTW since you are an idiot and don't realize it the time on here is not set to NY time. I run my own business and don't have to worry about a boss and your just pissed that I have access to the net anytime I want to and your pathetic life doesn't allow you that. So since you are "working at home near family" (yeah right) you are calling yourself a lesser loser? Hahaha good one.

By Anonymous on Saturday, October 30, 1999 - 03:37 am:

seekwar,
apparently you don't have a life. you post here just as much. you're one to say. and you're not funny if that's what you're trying to be. you seriously have no life. i don't care if you have a family. family or not, you post here like hell.

bhima,
at 21 i would hope that there is something better to do than constantly post here. you don't have a girlfriend or friends who you could spend your time with? 21 is the prime of your life. do something other than posting fundamentalist nonsense here.

By Stand up on Saturday, October 30, 1999 - 11:30 pm:

See kwar,

First learn to type and use of proper English, it truly shows your village mentality.

By Maggie on Tuesday, November 02, 1999 - 01:34 am:

Seekwar and Bhima,

How do you sleep at night knowing that all you do is throw darts at people who come here looking for emotional support ? or do you even know what you are doing ?

Bhima,

I may be a liberal but at least I don't live my life caught up in lies. You don't have an answer to my question on whether there is anything in Hindu Dharma that says people should behave the way you want them to as far as dovorcees and their children are concerned. While you are making up lies, Princess gave me a response that many of my real Hindu friends have confirmed. I rest my case.

By Editor on Tuesday, November 02, 1999 - 03:24 pm:

We request readers to ignore seekwar and bhima patel type of bigots. Please do NOT answer any of their posts. They are banned from the site. If they attempt again we will ban them again. We are also contacting their net providers to take action against them.

We apologize for insensitive and obscene garbage posted by these two ignorant people.

By MagiCure on Tuesday, November 02, 1999 - 10:55 pm:

There is this girl that I admire and like for sometime, since she stays in my nieghbourhood. Our relationship was fantastic and wå defied everyone with our friendship, we were best friends, until I came abroad. Before leaving, the hunt had already begun for a suitable life partner for me, and I had already declared to my parents that I had noone particular in my mind, mainly because, I only felt about her as a best friend. Once abroad, the distance, between us was intolerable, and we knew that we were on the verge of falling in love. It was a do-or-die situation for me, because, I couldnot disappoint my parents by going back on my words, as well as the girl. I had to choose between the two and I chose my parents. It hurt me a lot, but it would have also hurt me more if I had done otherwise. The girl also accepted the fact, slowly and now is into another relationship. What kind of inference can i draw from this ? Did i do the right thing ? I am emotionally attached to my parents because they have struggled hard to make me what I am. Plus the fact that declaring my love, would give an alogether different perspective to our relationship in the eyes of her parents tooas I know her parents very well and they know that we both are the best friends.

By Stand up on Tuesday, November 02, 1999 - 11:18 pm:

It is too late to wallow in what could have been? Not like you can reverse your decision even if it was wrong.

As a man, some time or another you need to let go of the apron strings and learn to live with your decisions. Even birds push their babies out of the nest, certain level of independece is healthy and required to be an emotionally healthy young man that you are.

By Maggie on Wednesday, November 03, 1999 - 02:21 am:

MagiCure,

I think you and this girl have always been in love but telling yourselves that you are just best friends. Sounds like neither one of you had the guts to admit it to each other and to your parents. I can't tell from your message what harm your declaration of love will cause but think about this situation from a practical perspective.

If the girl has accepted the situation and decided to move on, why do you want to disrupt her life ? do you know for sure she will change her mind and come back to you if you declare your love ?

If you think that just the declaration of love will cause problems for your parents and her parents, how will you handle them if you go ahead and marry this girl ?

In general, people are not capable of choosing one kind of love over another. For example the worst nightmare a woman can have is to choose between her husband and her children if they don't get along with each other. In such cases there will always be victims no matter what the decision.

I agree with Stand up that you have to learn to make your own decisions and live by them. I don't see any victims here other than some hurt feelings. You should leave things alone and move on. If you don't want your parents to do any "hunting" for you, you should speak up right now. What is the worst thing that will happen if you do ? Otherwise they will find someone, you won't have the guts to say no, you will marry that poor girl and so on and so forth. Don't make yourself a victim and create other victims. Like Stand up says first and foremost you need to gain confidence and emotional stability to make your own decisions and live by them. Good luck.

By MagiCure on Wednesday, November 03, 1999 - 04:30 pm:

Maggie / Standup,

I appreciate your valuable suggestions. Before coming abroad, whenever I asked her what she felt about the rumours about our relationship, she told me that she ignored them as wayside talks. And I too felt the same that we should ignore all the rumours. The first impression that our society draws when they see a young boy and a girl together, is that they are having an affair.
And we denied this, because, we have an excellent level of understanding and openness. She knows as much about me, as I do about her. I never took her as my lifemate, it was pure friendship all the way. And if she would have felt that way, she would have told me earlier. Only when I came abroad, did I know that we had something more than friendship going. I think it was the period just before my going abroad, when we knew that we were going to miss each other, but I thought that it was natural for me, as we were really good friends.
I am sure that I didnot think of her as my lifemate, until I came abroad and started to miss her more. From my side, it was a pure platonic relationship till then. I think I missed to know about her true feelings way down her heart. So think practically, that's exactly what I did, when i had to decide. I and the girl decided that love is not what is going to be between us, because of the complications involved. She too accepted it gracefully, we decided to be the best friends as before, and she is happy, (atleast that is what she tells me and looking at the way she is going in her present relationship!) I don't think it was a question of guts, because she very well knows that I wouldnot stand back if I had to go ahead and propose. I donot have any intention to disrupt her life now. I did take a decision, and am learning how to make the right ones. Your responses have been according to my expectations. We both have left our past behind and are moving on with our lives wonderfully. To my mind, I am pretty much satisfied with the way things have gone and are going, for both of us. This way, I didn't lose her friendship, and at the same time I have managed to keep our parents happy too. I feel such things should happen in your lives, otherwise you won't realise a lot of things and gain confidence. Altogether, I see a positive impact from this situation.

By Ven on Friday, November 19, 1999 - 03:49 am:

Hello. This is my first time on this message board. I am a 28 year old indian male raised in the US now living in Texas. I am looking for a woman for either a long term relationship leading to marriage. As a child and teenager, I was discouraged from interacting in a social and quasi-dating way with indian girls. I always believed the girls were raised the same way and would be unreceptive or even hostile to being approached. But more and more I am seeing that the women have become very liberated in their thinking. My basic question, I guess, what are the women really thinking. Do they wish to be approached in a sort of western style dating or are they holding firm to the eastern tradition of doing things.

By Princess on Saturday, November 20, 1999 - 02:23 am:

Ven,

Each individual person is different when it comes to the issues of dating before marriage. People who grew up here, were exposed to it and are familiar with it are more apt to understanding it versus people who grew up in India and were raised much more sheltered. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule about how to approach women. As long as your approach is well intentioned and harmless and genuine no woman, whether she will accept your date or reject it, would find it upsetting. People always have the choice to say no and there always are other fish in the sea. However you will be pleasently suprised to find out that most people your age are open to dating and meeting people.

By Desperate on Tuesday, November 23, 1999 - 02:57 am:

I've fallen in love with a black woman. Deeply in love. However, my parents are arranging me with a girl in India. I've had to cut off my "love" and its killing me inside. If I go through with this marriage I well resent my parents for the rest of my life, I fear I will come to hate my wife, and worst of all I will lose the "one" I know I was meant to be with. Any advice?

By Susan on Tuesday, November 23, 1999 - 04:40 am:

Desperate -
If you don't want to go through with this marriage, please don't. I'm afraid if you do, we'll be seeing your posts on the other strings regarding divorce, etc..

If you are that unhappy about having an arranged marriage and love another woman, please don't go through with it. It won't be best for you, it won't be best for your family, and it won't be best for the woman you love or for the woman you're to marry.

That's not even considering any children that might result from the marriage. How fair is it to bring an innocent life into this world with your present feelings?

Follow your heart. That path may not be easy either, but it's much better than having to go back and pick up the pieces to a broken marriage and the broken lives of those who got hurt because you didn't stand up now for what you believe in and what you want for your life.

Best of luck to you.

By Desperate on Tuesday, November 23, 1999 - 07:19 pm:

Susan,


Thanks for responding. I know in my heart you are right. Now I just have to find the courage to take a stand with my parents and relatives. It's bad enough not going through with the arranged marriage, but I have to come clean about my black girlfriend. My mom is especially racist.


Well thanks again for the advice,I think you're very right. It was good to get some reassurance. Take Care

By Sam on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 03:41 am:

Desperate


What Indian man with any pride would disgrace his family by marrying a black woman. I would rather live my life with honor and pride knowing I followed a rich tradition, than belittle myself and my family. Sometimes duty comes before love. Maybe you can take the black woman as a mistress? a lot of people will tell you to follow your heart, but this is not practical. Black woman are not up to the standard.


You know I'm right.


Sam

By Stand up on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 04:41 am:

Sam,

Excuse me??? Take black woman as a mistress??

Are you out of your mind? Where are your Indian family values? Did you consider wife's feelings?
Did you consider unfairness to both women?

Sounds like you promote pleasure not values... and you consider this to be "right" advice???

Where is your brain? Perhaps in between your legs. Huh?

By Anon on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 04:43 am:

Desperate,

Don't do it man... Listen don't do it. Just postpone your arrange marriage until you get over your hurt. Rebound relationships usually never work out. You are being unfair to your future wife.
You would be screwing someone innocent person's life. You or anyone knowingly should not impact anyone's life adversely.

By Susan on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 07:20 am:

Desperate,
You're very much welcome.

Though he's entitled to his opinion, I strongly disagree with Sam's comments. What will still marrying the wrong woman and keeping the right one as a mistress solve??? Not a thing. It will only increase the problems you already are dealing with.

I'm sorry to hear about your Mom's tendency to be racist. I hope once you're able to talk with them and make them understand that you love this woman (black, white, green, yellow, whatever) and that she makes you happy, that your Mother will change her mind. She may never change, and I know you're facing some difficult times ahead.

Anytime you need to talk, I'll be glad to listen. My thoughts are with you and I hope you'll keep the board updated on what happens.

By Dexter on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 09:58 am:

I have to agree with Susan and Stand Up. Sam is entitled to his opinion, but I also have to disagree with them as well. I have to say it but Sam, what do you mean that black women aren't up to standard? Have you ever seen Halle Berry? Or Angela Bassett? Or Lena Horne? Or even Dorothy Dandridge? Are you saying that these women aren't beautiful at all? Only blind men or (men blinded by prejudice) could ever say that all black women aren't up to standards of beauty. I've never heard of a guy of any race who thought that Halle Berry was ugly or that she wasn't up to standard. If he did, then that guy would be labeled as an idiot or would be given a white cane and a seeing-eye dog. Not every black woman is an overweight Aunt Jemima.

And as far as having the black woman as a mistress is worse. Desperate, don't do it. Not because the woman is black, but it's wrong no matter what color the woman is. Not only you'll be disrespecting her but also the woman arranged to be your wife. Don't keep her as a mistress. If you do, you'll be hurting both women. Say (hypothetically speaking) if you go with the wedding and the news come out that you had an affair with another woman, who was the one you're in love with but not arranged to be married to. Your wife will divorce and leave you and the woman who you have as a 'mistress' won't trust either and leave you too. She'll think "If he will do that to his wife, what guarantee that I have that he'lì won't fool around ME?"

Historically speakinç, I have a problem with it because US president Thomas Jefferson had his slave Sally Hemmings as his "mistress" because he owned her, yet somehow he was "in love" with her.

Desperate, I don't question the love you have for this woman, but just be careful not to do anything that will disråspect both women like having one or the other as a mistress. Remember that "Duty before love" doesn't mean putting a person on a pedestal in public, while dragging someone else iî the mud in private.

My $0.02

By Desperate on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 07:30 pm:

Susan and Dexter


Thanks again. What you are saying is exactly right. By denying my feelings I would be hurting a lot of people in the long run. As for having her for a mistress I could never. I love and respect her too much. I'm sôarting to realize that I really have no choice. i have to do the right thing. I will keep you posted.


Sam


just for the record. She comes from a very well respecteä family and she's beautiful inside and out. From the moment she wakes up in the morning, without putting on a stitch of makå-up. She is 100% beautiful and I loved her from the moment I met her. I see us doing great things for the world together. You sound like my father. In anycase I'll have to take Susan and Äexters advice.Thanks anyway.


Not so Desperate anymore

By Desperate on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 09:53 pm:

<ÈR> Thanks to Stand-Up too, I didn't see your message at first.

By inlovewithindianman on Friday, November 26, 1999 - 04:38 pm:

ANOTHER COMMENT TO SAM AND OTHER INDIAN MEN WHO CLAIM BLACK WOMEN ARE NOT WORTHY OF THEIR LOVE...

sam, more than likely you are living your life just as you have stated...with a pseudo sense of "honor and pride" and don't forget loneliness pal! So many indian men are single at age 35 and up with no children...living their lives without any companionship. Well, what can you do if your own women shun you??? I know for a fact most indian men are turning to women outside their race because they are having too many problems with women of their own race.

Most indian women in america turn up their noses to uneducated or unestablished indian men in the united states. Indian women, say for example, in new york, are turning to white men or other men outside their race as well! What is going on? Frankly, I am growing very tired of the line heard most often by indians ...adhering to this "rich tradition" stuff. What rich tradition? The rich tradition of beating indian women? Of not appreciating them? The rich tradition of making slaves out of your own children? Indians have big problems like everybody else. But it is the only race that I have heard to makes slaves out of their own children in the tabacco industry! tis, tis, what a shame! Tell me, what kind of pride and honor is associated with that?

By Sam on Friday, November 26, 1999 - 10:18 pm:

All of you are filling "Desperates" head with nonsense. And now he's going to listen to you, and ultimately ruin his life. I am not racist, I'm sure that there are plenty of intelligent, successful and beautiful black woman, and they should stick to black men. The black man is the only one who can appreciate a black woman.


inlovewithanindianman-- It is my opinion that if a black woman goes out of her race to find a man; whether he indian, white or whatever she will only be a sex object. There will only be an animalistic attraction, and once that dies so does the relationship. Your example, Robert DeNiro, he has gone through so many black woman, and when the thrill is gone so is he. I bet he will eventually end up marrying a white women for life.


I feel the same way about Indian woman that marry outside of their race to a black, white or even Chinese would just treat her like a whore. And


that's what men think of women that would turn there back on their culture, they have no loyalty, no self-respect and they are whores.


Maybe things should not be this way, they should not be this way. But they are -- and I intend to play by the rules.


Standing by my statement


Sam

By Irwin on Friday, November 26, 1999 - 10:34 pm:

You said it, "in love with. . ." Why are some persons who are so proud talking about their tradition and heritage and so open to people of all colors, but shut down all the doors and banishes their own people when they reveal s/he's in love with a black man or woman? Is it our complexions that get racists like Sam all bent out of shape? Maybe those hypocrites are upset because they know that African-Americans and Indians have so much of a similar historical common past from being used as labor in the Caribbean to suffering apartheid in South Africa. Stop fakin' the funk! We both come from lands that contributed much to the world. We both come in all shades of colors. We both have a long diaspora. And we also live around the world. So anybody shouldn't even freak out when they should see an Indian and a black dating each other or even (GASP) MARRY EACH OTHER. It's called human nature.

For Sam and those that still have this "holier than thou" attitude about certain persons of different colors mixing with each other, let me finish this by quoting a line from rapper Positive K that seems to be a favorite saying of brother Dexter's:

"Don't sweat yourself, or you may find yourself BY YOURSELF."

Peace

By inlovewithindianman on Saturday, November 27, 1999 - 01:46 am:

SAM,

I agree about Robert DeNiro...he has been afflicted with a disease most men are afflicted by...inflammation of the penile gland, otherwise known as WHORE-ITIS...DeNiro, like most men, can't be satisfied with only one woman for a long period of time...he's a hopeless whore like most men...who all grow bored with the same woman...but he certainly respects black women by marrying them and having children with them...of the many black women he has fallen in love with, they certainly get a big chunk of his change after he strays...that indeed counts...he doesn't make mistresses out of them and leave them penniless! In other words, he makes them worth something!

By Indiangirl on Monday, November 29, 1999 - 07:39 pm:

SAM

"I feel the same way about Indian woman that marry outside of their race to a black, white or even Chinese would just treat her like a whore. And"

Well, I think only men like you would treat a woman like that....if marrying outside to you is a "whore act" then I have no idea what world you are living in!!!!! One has nothing to do with the other or do I have to explain to you the basics!!!!!

"that's what men think of women that would turn there back on their culture, they have no loyalty, no self-respect and they are whores"

Men!!!!! Who are you???? Mr Spokesperson for the entire male population????? Where do you develop these ridiculous ideas??? Women (or even Men) who marry someone from a different race/relgion/culture/etc. are NOT TURNING THEIR BACKS against their culture!!!! Man, honestly you need to go back to school or wherever you learnt this crap from and check what you have learnt!!!!! It doesn't make any sense.......YOU CAN BE LOYAL TO YOUR CULTURE AND RESEPECT IT AS MUCH AS THE OTHER PERSON AND BE MARRIED TO SOMEONE FROM DIFFERENT CULTURE!!!!!! Who do you interact with??????? Your opinion have no basis to it, hence they are not even valid........Just because you feel that way because you are ignorant to the real life facts around you, does not mean that you represent even 1/4 of the male population!!!!!

"Maybe things should not be this way, they should not be this way. But they are -- and I intend to play by the rules"

Things are NOT THIS WAY!!!!! It is your distorted thinking that believes it to be this way......along with maybe some others.......but, it is definately not the majority!!!!

By inlovewithindianman on Wednesday, December 01, 1999 - 12:10 am:

boy did she tell him...SAM, wake up and smell the real world...people are happy with whomever they choose to be with these days. In fact, there will be so many interracial unions in the future, no one is going to care...so you may as well prepare to open that closed mind...in with the new millenium comes new world thinkers...out with stale and stagnant--in with fresh and free...get with the program pal.

By djnicky on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 05:46 pm:

hey, i'd just like to say that i have been reading these discussions and found them utterly fascinating. i have only been able to observe the dynamics of indian culture as an outsider - i am not indian, though i grew up with many indian friends (i am australian).

i often wondered what it was about the hindu religion that sometimes resulted in a sense of bigotry i experienced from the indian communities i have known - like all religions, it is easy to slip into the realm of idealistic-borne bigotry at the border, but in particular i was often curious about hinduism. i once fell in love with an indian girl, but because i was white i was never allowed to fulfill that love as her father was what i now know to be a radical hindu rascist.

i thought i'd just let you all know that even though i am not indian, i have benefitted from being able to read your posts and understand the various sides to the different issues involved in indian culture, and to me this has been a most rewarding experience. i think i will approach my view of indian culture, especially sexual aspects, with a renewed interest.

By apacheindian on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 01:24 am:

i am pretty much in the same boat as djnicky, i am not of indian heritage. But i am indian though. i am native american indian. i have always wanted to learn more about the hindu religion as well as the indian culture.
i found out about this site in that yahoo magazine, and wanted to check it out.
anyways, i have been reading these past posted letters and have slowly become more and more interested in this website. i am absolutly coming back to learn more.
oh and one other thing, this sam guy is totally wrong about what he says. i believe who we marry or fall in love with is the person, not the race.
and i really love what indiangirl said mostly because she is right. sam does not make his statement on behalf of the male gender because iam a guy and i REALLY, REALLY, do not agree with what he has to say.
even though i agree everybody has a right to their opinion, it is still jus that. their opinion. not mine.

By Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2000 - 01:22 am:

Girl is a lover and killer.

By lilly J. on Monday, January 10, 2000 - 07:48 pm:

hey,
this is my first time here&i really don't know how your conversations function,but i would like to say something about love.love is a very complex and difficult emotion to understand.even more difficult is to experience love,to obtain it.people though do have the need,or perhaps the want,to discover and analize love and its complexities.love is not meant for analysis.it is just something that happens,spontaneously.it is a feeling,a state of being.it has no definition,nor its questions with answers.people want love so bad that they try to force its presence&place morals & restrictions on who they are meant to share it with-----age,appearence,race,wealth,etc.i fear that these standards&morals actually hold us away from the embrace of love. love has'nt keen eyes,but only an ever-wildly beating heart. let your heart guide you to love,not your eyes or force or even our own image of love.
thanxfor your time

By Dexter on Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 12:44 am:

Lilly J.,

I just wanted to say that you did just fine in your first conversation here. You said what you felt inside and that's all there is to it.

You did have a good point that I wish we could all elaborate: Is love something that just happens to couples or does it cultivate as time goes on? And what's the difference between love and lust? In my opinion, I believe that we as humans have been so jaded and hurt by so many others and rejected, that when some of us get a glimpse of love that we try to put so many conditions on it (as Lilly J. mentioned) by age, race, appearance, amount of wealth and such that we forget about commitment sometimes (unless it benefits us as the individual moreso than the partner).

I don't know if that description can be called "love." It's probably an organized form of lust or a customized or personalized form of carnal knowledge than love, but I could be wrong. For myself, I don't want to give any woman a reason to think I'm dull or not exciting enough for her standards. In fact, I hope I exceed her standards. Nevertheless, whomever she is, I don't want her to be embarrassed or ashamed to have me as her boyfriend or if possible later on as her husband.

Princess, Sincerely, Rita, Joseph and others...could you give your comments about this emotion known as love? And should it be analyzed like a science experiment?

By Idealist on Friday, February 04, 2000 - 01:49 am:

Hi guys, this is my first time writing. I have been following your conversation and wanted to put my two cents in. As for Lilly J's question about love just happening, or it cultivating as time goes on, I vote for the latter. People change everyday and I like the notion that as we as individuals change, so does our love for our better half. I don't think that it just happens and that's that. As for the difference between love and lust, I think that lust is what attracts you to a person for the first time, but as you get to know the person, and talk to them, then that is love. As for me personally, love=respect. I don't think you can love a person if you truly do not respect them.
That's my two cents

By JD on Friday, February 25, 2000 - 11:50 pm:

Hey, first time up to bat, so here goes:

Whats all this talk about love... i accidently found this site and i think we all need to stop talking about it and "just do it". Anyway, i'm a twenty eight year old guy, who just can't seem to commit. i've narrowed my choices to sticking to an Indian girl, but which one is the question. my problem is, i date for a while and i get bored - break up - and the cycle continues. I work in the hectic world of investment banking in Toronto, and its hard to find a "good" Indian girl - only the one's that are bad news. If anyone out there is from Toronto (home of Vince Carter) please reply, hopefuly a beautiful Indian girl can share her insights with me over coffee?

By jas on Thursday, March 30, 2000 - 08:37 am:

get a life JD!!!

By Anonymous on Thursday, March 30, 2000 - 04:49 pm:

this is to JD

i think youre bad news to any beautiful indian girl if thats the way u think - sorry bro u better change your thinking or youre gonna be an old bachelor !!! and dont prove me right !!!! :)

By ajay on Wednesday, April 12, 2000 - 02:15 am:

When you fall in love with some body
You must let him know.

By jasleen on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 01:52 am:

hi everyone
please give me some advice about what I'm going to write. here is my life story??????????????????????
when i was 16 years i fallin love actuallysome guy started to love me but first i use to ignore him but later on i stared to like him and now i'm in love with him but some times we fight with each other. then my boyfriend says sorry to me and we're back again. but now i really love my boyfriend. my parent don't know about all this .now my parents are finding a husband for me but i only want to get marry with my boyfriend and they want me to say yes but i didn't say yes yet. and they even has his picture and on the picture he look old and ugly. i really don't want to get marry with him .PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE.WHAT SHOULD I DO. I'LL WAIT FOR YOUR MESSAGE. BYE FOR NOW
JASLEEN

By Jat Punjabi on Wednesday, April 26, 2000 - 04:07 am:

Jasleen,

Well, if you don't like the guy your parents want you to marry, there is no reason to marry him. So, you should make this clear to them that you don't like him at all.

Now, if the guy, you are supposedly in love with, is from the same religion and caste, you shouldn't have much of a problem with your parents. But, if he is of different religion, you might have a problem with your parents or might not. It all depends on what your parents' beliefs.

Take care

By whatever on Tuesday, May 02, 2000 - 07:05 pm:

Jd is gay.
Jasleen is a slut.
They should hook up and GBNAF!

By saint on Friday, May 05, 2000 - 09:36 am:

hi, my boyfriend broke up with me last night, 5/3/00, when i least expected it. he said we have the same personality (we both sagits). we disagree on just about anything. he perceives things differently than how i perceive. he said he can't go through with this any more after 2 1/2 yrs of dating. he makes remarks of other woman in front of me. basically, comparing me to other woman when he sees one--this is just one of the things that he said/did. i don't know if by breaking up with him now is better than in the future. we both in college and expected to graduation at this end of this year. i'm in the stage of recovery, please help.

By Ilovehim on Sunday, May 07, 2000 - 07:00 am:

Hi Everyone,
I have a big problem that I need help with. I am in love with an Indian man. I don't know how this all happened nor how to handle it. Each waking minute, he is on my mind. I think of him often and I miss him terribly. I think that he loves me, but because of circumstances he is afraid to speak to me about it. What can I do? How do I handle this situation without getting hurt or in trouble in the process? How do I get him to talk to me about his feelings? What do I do?

Any advise is appreciated.

By shjar on Sunday, May 07, 2000 - 09:57 am:

i love him

i think you have a crush, not love. i had those symptoms before--every minute you fantasize how it would be like if you and him are dating. i say give it more time and look for signs. maybe, ask him to imagine if you're a couple and see how he would respond--that might help you determine whether or not he feels what you feel. well good luck and tell me how it turns out.

By Laky on Wednesday, May 17, 2000 - 01:24 am:

Dear all
From a UK Punjabi Sikh, all I can say is that you people have too much fear. Why are you sitting here looking for advice from people who don't know you. You know what your problem is, but rather than make the hard decisions you just look for people to make them for you. Maybe then you won't feel responsible and can blame it on another. Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but you have to live your own life.

By confused on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 - 04:05 pm:

Help!! I was born and raised in one of the southern pacific island. I am Polynesian/Spaniard. I am married with a child. I am in love with an Indian Co-worker. He is also married with 2 kids. His marriage was arranged 15 years ago and my marriage was arranged 8 years ago. We are both commited to our spouse and family but we are both unhappy sexually with our spouses. My husband is 23 years older than I am and is not very interested in sex as much as I am. I have tried to tire myself by working full time, work out at the gym and even joined a martial art school just so I can come home and collapse in bed like my husband. My co-worker has the same problem, his wife isn't interested in sex ever since from the start. For the 15 years that they have been married they will only make love once or twice in a month or two months. My husband gave me permession to have a lover as long as I don't change anything at home and make the love affair discreet. My coworker/lover and I would meet every now and then to have sex and it's all sexual relationship. Our sex is wonderful and we both find pleasure in each others arms. I know that what we are doing is wrong and I would like to ask some advice from the readers. I want to stop this sexual relationship but I find it very difficult. Please help me. Try to give me some advice

By hisla on Thursday, June 01, 2000 - 04:34 pm:

Dear Confused,

It's obvious that you suffer from sexual addiction. Try to find a support group in your area. Or maybe you could convince yourself that you are a human and not an animal and try to control your addiction. Have you tried to please yourself? Try stimulating your clit yourself? Chompin on some some married guys tumbi isn't the way to go. I don't know the either of you but I don't respect people who don't respect their marriage. If both of you are unhappy in your mariages than leave instead of hiding in some dingy motel. Weak...you are very weak. No sympathy here..slut.

By confused on Saturday, June 03, 2000 - 03:46 pm:

I know I am weak, and this is the reason why I posted my weakness in the message board, in exchange for some guidance and not insult nor sympathy to give me strength to end this wrongful thing that we are doing. I am happily married with my husband except on the sex part and by the way I am not a sex addict. I enjoy sex but I am not addicted to sex. There is a big difference. my husband and I are not compatible sexualy but we are on other stuff. I can not just leave and turn my back on my family because I don't get enough in the sack. I really don't know what to do and I know that I don't have any good reason for this wrongful actions. To anyone out there who has the brain to share your wonderful oppinion pleas